37 replies to this topic

[Che'_Moderator]

Jackbr02, on 21 June 2009 - 10:05 PM, said:

Changing the octane is half the point, suppressing detonation is the other. Without tuning, you are going to be screwing with the water/meth mixture to get it perfect, but that too is totally worth it.

If you need more octane, change your fuel.....

rbodor3, on 21 June 2009 - 10:41 PM, said:

iirc yours is trunk mount? Pump in the trunk or under hood?

Primer pump in the trunk and the system pump is on my strut bar.

Naughty33W, on 22 June 2009 - 01:02 AM, said:

unless you're willing to pay for dyno tuning after the WMI install , $$$

I did. And saw peak gains off of straight water

[Naughty33W]

Che'_Moderator, on 22 June 2009 - 04:24 AM, said:

I did. And saw peak gains off of straight water

cool , tho i think it would be awesome to see a dyno sheet that shows the same car at : 100% water , 90% water + 10% methanol , 75% water + 25% methanol , and 50% water + 50% methanol ... i believe timing would prolly have to be adjusted for each tho

Che'_Moderator, on 22 June 2009 - 04:24 AM, said:

I did. And saw peak gains off of straight water

cool , tho i think it would be awesome to see a dyno sheet that shows the same car at : 100% water , 90% water + 10% methanol , 75% water + 25% methanol , and 50% water + 50% methanol ... i believe timing would prolly have to be adjusted for each tho

Che'_Moderator, on 22 June 2009 - 04:24 AM, said:

I did. And saw peak gains off of straight water

cool , tho i think it would be awesome to see a dyno sheet that shows the same car at : 100% water , 90% water + 10% methanol , 75% water + 25% methanol , and 50% water + 50% methanol ... i believe timing would prolly have to be adjusted for each tho

sorry , dunno y it did that

[lookforjoe]

Che'_Moderator, on 21 June 2009 - 04:44 PM, said:

Problem with the cheaper kits are the pumps are not as robust and they are huge. Finding a decent mounting location can be a PITA

Shurflo pumps fit right in the rail - mine is 160psi.



.. since it only takes 5 minutes (or less) to pull the entire bumper, this is a great location.

Aquamist nozzles & fittings can be purchased separately from Aquamist USA, they're in NJ -




PowerAire solenoids prevent any leakdown

[rbodor3]

Naughty33W, on 22 June 2009 - 05:14 AM, said:

cool , tho i think it would be awesome to see a dyno sheet that shows the same car at : 100% water , 90% water + 10% methanol , 75% water + 25% methanol , and 50% water + 50% methanol ... i believe timing would prolly have to be adjusted for each tho

don't forget though that che's also running about 500+ whp

[Naughty33W]

rbodor3, on 22 June 2009 - 12:41 PM, said:

don't forget though that che's also running about 500+ whp

true , i think Che is my Volvo Hero , hahahaha

[rbodor3]

Naughty33W, on 22 June 2009 - 02:03 PM, said:

true , i think Che is my Volvo Hero , hahahaha

well when I joined VS only like a year ago when I flipped through the project S60R it didn't really hit me what 600whp meant. But shortly afterwards I started getting OCD about watching Top Gear and that's when it really sank in.... I mean the Benz SLR is shooting out somewhere are 600 (granted at some ridiculous torque).

[Che'_Moderator]

rbodor3, on 22 June 2009 - 03:10 PM, said:

well when I joined VS only like a year ago when I flipped through the project S60R it didn't really hit me what 600whp meant. But shortly afterwards I started getting OCD about watching Top Gear and that's when it really sank in.... I mean the Benz SLR is shooting out somewhere are 600 (granted at some ridiculous torque).

Yeah. 30 less ft/lb than my engine

[rbodor3]

[mikus]

you can find the methanol % of any washer fluid on the MSDS. Wal-mart has the highest around here...

My other ride is WI, i run walmart's fluid and do occassionally throw in some HEET to work out a very light knock (have a knock gauge). 'better fuel' is $6/gallon and not on every corner

how are you guys triggering & failsafing? Any use of the BCS?

[Che'_Moderator]

Umm detergent in the the engine. Piston wipe is soooooo sexy. This is what octane booster is for if you're tuning for it.

[Naughty33W]

Che'_Moderator, on 22 June 2009 - 04:09 PM, said:

Yeah. 30 less ft/lb than my engine

like i said , my "Volvo Hero"

[mikus]

No one can argue the corrosive nature of methanol - the context needs to be considered though.

Sprayed intermittantly, in diluted form, and then vaporized before it ever touches the rings - the corrosion issue is marginal. As a vapor, this is now but one of many corrosive elements that may slip by to the crankcase (and then evacuate via PCV along with water, gas, sulpher etc) If corrosive properties alone preclude use, what are you using instead of gasoline?

Predetonation on the other hand, has a proven track record of killing motors. Methanol in WI (to a point) for knock reduction is a very worthwhile trade when executed correctly.


Back to setups though - am curious what sort of trigger (BCS solenoid, something that came w/ kit, etc) y'all are using and if you also use a failsafe mechanism? (and again how is it looped in) Or do you just monitor the vitals and adjust as you go along?

[Ipd]

I use the injector pulse width from the fuel injectors to trigger my injection solenoid via a power transistor.
That way your water injection is proportional to your fuel and not just an on/off switch where you get too much injection during low load and not enough at higher loads.


Lookforjoe runs his system like mine I believe, he may have some input as well.

[rbodor3]

lucky - you running a simple linear relationship of the two?

[Che'_Moderator]

mikus, on 22 June 2009 - 07:00 PM, said:

No one can argue the corrosive nature of methanol - the context needs to be considered though.

Sprayed intermittantly, in diluted form, and then vaporized before it ever touches the rings - the corrosion issue is marginal. As a vapor, this is now but one of many corrosive elements that may slip by to the crankcase (and then evacuate via PCV along with water, gas, sulpher etc) If corrosive properties alone preclude use, what are you using instead of gasoline?

Predetonation on the other hand, has a proven track record of killing motors. Methanol in WI (to a point) for knock reduction is a very worthwhile trade when executed correctly.


Back to setups though - am curious what sort of trigger (BCS solenoid, something that came w/ kit, etc) y'all are using and if you also use a failsafe mechanism? (and again how is it looped in) Or do you just monitor the vitals and adjust as you go along?

You can retard timing too to prevent knock. That does not mean you want to be doing it though in a performance application. If you have pre ignition, adjust your fuel. Either a higher RVP, more octane, non-oxygenated, so on. If thats not enough look at your timing and cooling. WI is a band aid solution. My WI was tuned by GIAC at their NJ shop. I monitor EGTs and trust the knock sensors. I know you guys are gauge whores, but I trust the electronics on most things. Same with the race cars. I do not have time to watch 1000000 dials. I'll take an indicator or an audible 90% of the time oer another dial to watch.

[Ipd]

rbodor3, on 22 June 2009 - 07:50 PM, said:

lucky - you running a simple linear relationship of the two?

Hussein is I believe, I'm not running that setup any more.

My new setup is controlled injection via an SMT6 to pulse my injector as needed based on timing advance.
So as some timing is retarded I add a bit of water injection to bring that timing back and regain lost power.

I have to agree with Che on this, water injection can work but it's not the most ideal setup.
Half the reason I've even gone as far as I have with mine is just to be somewhat educated on the subject.

[lookforjoe]

Ipd - Lucky, on 22 June 2009 - 10:25 PM, said:

Hussein is I believe, I'm not running that setup any more.

My new setup is controlled injection via an SMT6 to pulse my injector as needed based on timing advance.
So as some timing is retarded I add a bit of water injection to bring that timing back and regain lost power.

I have to agree with Che on this, water injection can work but it's not the most ideal setup.
Half the reason I've even gone as far as I have with mine is just to be somewhat educated on the subject.

Yeah, mine is as you had stated - injector pulse/duty determines solenoid opening. I built the controller into a Volvo relay housing





Where are you picking up the timing signal? Got a schematic for that setup?

I haven't been using it at all of late - I'm still trying to get the most out of Janne's tune without adding WI. Once I have TT, maybe I'll factor it back in.

[mikus]

This is all great reading/googling material, this board continues to impress.

FWIW I agree as well there's better ways than WI as well - DIY performance is an opportunistic/budget-driven effort sometimes though