1516 replies to this topic

[Dave 54]

Looks good, awsome work on the baffle should help alot.
I have a few of those fill caps laying around for the 700's, might try it this winter for a small project. Did you have to mod it to fit or just slap it on?

Have you checked the volts yet at your fuel pump? Interested to see what it's reading and if your experiencing any drop

[lookforjoe]

Dave 54, on 14 November 2009 - 02:09 PM, said:

Looks good, awsome work on the baffle should help alot.
I have a few of those fill caps laying around for the 700's, might try it this winter for a small project. Did you have to mod it to fit or just slap it on?

Have you checked the volts yet at your fuel pump? Interested to see what it's reading and if your experiencing any drop

That baffle wasn't enough. After driving 20miles, running 1.65bar, I had a cup of oil in the CC .

After driving this evening with a 200/700 flame trap assembly added to the top of the fill cap to see if that deflected the oil back. It seemed to work, so I added a steel baffle plate at the base of the sleeve tube, using the NA flame trap as a drill guide.

Haven't got around to the FP voltage check yet.

[lookforjoe]

Well, after driving 90 miles today, I had about 1/2 cup in the CC... so, I figured I better add additional baffling to the cap vent.

This is what I did (sketch on left side) - added two discs to deflect oil (hopefully). I'll not know for sure until I've driven a bit. Can say for sure that the additional vent cures any excess pressure I was getting over 24psi boost




..if I still get excess oil in the CC, I'll have to figure something else out. Can't exactly build a drain back into the filler cap.

[Hanks]

look at the water pipe i got sooooo much better for the garrett setup.





came from a 2001 xc

[lookforjoe]

Hanks, on 16 November 2009 - 05:08 AM, said:

look at the water pipe i got sooooo much better for the garrett setup.

came from a 2001 xc

Nice!

Looks like the TC water feed is much easier to deal with.

2 chart segments from the way to work - now running 1.65bar boost

two seconds from 4th

two seconds from 5th

definitely gets richer as you go up a gear - 3rd is leaner @ the same rpm/load

..still need to confirm the timing scaling @ idle.

[dublin14]

Im starting to see that going bigger than a 19T and custom tuning issues is far to much BS with these cars?

[lookforjoe]

dublin14, on 16 November 2009 - 02:56 PM, said:

Im starting to see that going bigger than a 19T and custom tuning issues is far to much BS with these cars?

With any custom setup, it will require hardware-specific adjustments & tune tweaking. Unless you can afford to plunk down $$$$ to have a shop dyno tune, I don't see any way round that. Personally, I don't mind, I enjoy the process of getting there, and it is finally coming together pretty well.

[dublin14]

lookforjoe, on 16 November 2009 - 04:01 PM, said:

With any custom setup, it will require hardware-specific adjustments & tune tweaking. Unless you can afford to plunk down $$$$ to have a shop dyno tune, I don't see any way round that. Personally, I don't mind, I enjoy the process of getting there, and it is finally coming together pretty well.

With your craftiness and knowledge of these cars, its easier to deal with. But at least if i run into issues in the future if i go bigger i'll have some good info to fall back on from your posts! Are you hittin a dyno in the near future?

[lookforjoe]

dublin14, on 16 November 2009 - 04:25 PM, said:

With your craftiness and knowledge of these cars, its easier to deal with. But at least if i run into issues in the future if i go bigger i'll have some good info to fall back on from your posts! Are you hittin a dyno in the near future?

I'd rather go to the track - but not sure that will happen before the season ends, so yes, I'll have to look at dyno'ing in the next month or so.

[EricF]

dublin14, on 16 November 2009 - 02:56 PM, said:

Im starting to see that going bigger than a 19T and custom tuning issues is far to much BS with these cars?

If I were starting with a bone-stock 850 turbo, I would go one of two directions.
1) bolt on a 19T, intercooler, good software, and convert to manual transmission
2) bolt on a nicely sized garrett turbo, wire a 'decent' (for you Charles, I mean 'cheap') standalone with a modified stock gauge cluster, intercooler, manual swap and NA cams

These are the two best bang for the buck setups for a stock longblock. The first will get you 280-290 whp and 105-110 mph trap speeds.. The second will get you 280-330 whp, a more fun powerband, and probably with 105-112ish trap speeds.

I have run the gamut from this to that and everything in between in terms of stock block setups. These are my two scenarios I would actually pursue. The first costs about $3000, the second costs about $3500. With 850s starting to show up used in good shape for $1500-2500, there's no reason we don't see more of us actually going fast

[dublin14]

EricF, on 16 November 2009 - 05:57 PM, said:

If I were starting with a bone-stock 850 turbo, I would go one of two directions.
1) bolt on a 19T, intercooler, good software, and convert to manual transmission
2) bolt on a nicely sized garrett turbo, wire a 'decent' (for you Charles, I mean 'cheap') standalone with a modified stock gauge cluster, intercooler, manual swap and NA cams

These are the two best bang for the buck setups for a stock longblock. The first will get you 280-290 whp and 105-110 mph trap speeds.. The second will get you 280-330 whp, a more fun powerband, and probably with 105-112ish trap speeds.

I have run the gamut from this to that and everything in between in terms of stock block setups. These are my two scenarios I would actually pursue. The first costs about $3000, the second costs about $3500. With 850s starting to show up used in good shape for $1500-2500, there's no reason we don't see more of us actually going fast

With my S70T5 i have an 18T, 5-speed , FMIC ect... i have a HD WG actuator from Cherry Turbos comin today. But going the 20G or bigger Garret is when it really gets fun.

[lookforjoe]

Still getting too much oil vapor through the cap - so I braised over all but a few of the inner grille holes & put a baffle inside the CC port



.. I'm thinking the cap needs a better baffle, something that approximates the deflector in the Oil trap.. but, it can't drain back... sketched a couple of options. I assumed the larger ID tubing would be better in terms of less pressure/vacuum, but perhaps a smaller ID hose would be preferable - I am also considering a check valve to prevent vacuum drawing oil out the cam cover...

Logs from today... running 1.65bar replaced "Load"with "TP" in Logworks -

2-3 shift kinda lean..
3-4 shift
4-5 shift
5-6shift

[lookforjoe]

Raised fuel pressure to 3.5bar (raises inj. flow to 558cc).

data log from today - 1sec in 2nd
1 sec in 3rd

AFR's drop in the higher gears - not sure why they are so much higher in 1/2/3...

still need to refine the cam cover vent - under sustained wot still getting too much oil in the CC. Added another restrictor to the cap. I guess I need to figure out a drain back for this to work properly.

[Captain Bondo]

lookforjoe, on 19 November 2009 - 03:58 AM, said:

Raised fuel pressure to 3.5bar (raises inj. flow to 558cc).

data log from today - 1sec in 2nd



1 sec in 3rd



AFR's drop in the higher gears - not sure why they are so much higher in 1/2/3...

still need to refine the cam cover vent - under sustained wot still getting too much oil in the CC. Added another restrictor to the cap. I guess I need to figure out a drain back for this to work properly.

You seem to be making more boost in 3rd.

You have way less timing at the same RPM as in 2nd.

You really need to sort out a way to not be pegging the MAF.

Without actual load readings there isn't much you can do right now.

[ozzimark]

Is the 4th column still ignition timing? What's the 5th, that stays constant at 231?

[lookforjoe]

ozzimark, on 19 November 2009 - 12:35 PM, said:

Is the 4th column still ignition timing? What's the 5th, that stays constant at 231?

That's the MAF maxxed out.

Captain Bondo, on 19 November 2009 - 05:26 AM, said:

You seem to be making more boost in 3rd.

You have way less timing at the same RPM as in 2nd.

You really need to sort out a way to not be pegging the MAF.

Without actual load readings there isn't much you can do right now.

So, the calculated load from OBDII is not useful? I can't get injector duty cycle from OBDII, so I could add load back in...

Not sure how I can resolve the MAF issue with the existing tune. If I change the MAF housing, I'll have to go straight to TT to adjust for it. Right now, I just want to optimize for the Woth tune & use that data as a baseline for the TT setup.

[lookforjoe]

I'm thinking I need to make a drain back from the CC for the cam cover vent. I'm considering drilling & tapping the breather box, as I'm sure the drain is subject to siphoning; it drains into a closed section that drops below oil level, so crankcase pressure should not be exerted on that area. I believe draining back anywhere else will subject the drain to the same level of crankcase pressure I'm trying to alleviate..

Anyone got thoughts on that?

drain port in block... there is a matching sleeve in the pan





sample breather box with drain nipple

[lookforjoe]

4th gear pull from around 50 this morning rpm peak is 4/5 shift

[

[ozzimark]

Your AFR spikes rich when you get off the throttle for the shift? I don't have a wideband yet, but I know my car goes into closed loop when the engine is at some RPM higher than idle and my foot comes off the throttle, I always assumed that it reduced flow of fuel into the engine at that time, not tried to flood it

[Dave 54]

lookforjoe, on 20 November 2009 - 02:51 AM, said:

That's the MAF maxxed out.




So, the calculated load from OBDII is not useful? I can't get injector duty cycle from OBDII, so I could add load back in...

Not sure how I can resolve the MAF issue with the existing tune. If I change the MAF housing, I'll have to go straight to TT to adjust for it. Right now, I just want to optimize for the Woth tune & use that data as a baseline for the TT setup.

In the DSM scene we would run a GM MAF translator, not saying it would work here but there maybe others that could be modded to work?

http://www.dsmtuners...lator-maft.html

Here's another to check out, http://www.maftpro.com/