1516 replies to this topic

[Captain Bondo]

Ah I see what's happening.

Of course it's lean with 468's an 5 bar. At 20psi you (should) have 6.5 bar in the rail. What do you run for a pump? A walbro? If so, that stuff ain't happening bro. Walbros suck past 75psi or so.
It's leaning out under load because fuel pressure is taking a dump.

468's at 5 bar is the same as the 50's at 4 bar. So if it's better up top you know it's a pressure issue.

I'd be shocked if it wasn't, walbro's hate those kind of pressures.



Those injectors are right about the same speed or slightly slower than saturated Bosch injectors so that's likely not the issue.

Dynamic injector mismatch wouldn't typically make things linearly rich/lean either.

Are you datalogging AFR's currently? Sorry I think maybe you were asked that already.

Anyways if you aren't you should. The gauge's response to misfires and whatnot is unpredictable. A high speed datalog will give a bit better picture.


You guys better start making some serious numbers when TT comes out. No more excuses. J/K

lookforjoe, on 08 October 2009 - 12:38 AM, said:

I don't have any spec on the Bosch injectors, I'll have to ask Five-O. The Siemens specs are listed on my seller's listing:

Gain: 0.11ms/mg
Offset: 0.055ms
Turn on time @ 14VDC: 1.14ms
Turn off time: 0.85ms @ 600KPa
Factory Tolerance: +/-6 %
Spray Pattern: Cone (4-Hole)

The car was running rich across the board with the 625's - too lean with the 468's, even @ 5bar. I hoping that the 50lbs @ 4bar (605cc) will fit the bill, until I get the tune recalibrated for the actual flow rates of the siemens.

And yes, I'll be very happy once I get TT and can make adjustments dynamically.

[lookforjoe]

Captain Bondo, on 08 October 2009 - 02:03 AM, said:

Ah I see what's happening.

Of course it's lean with 468's an 5 bar. At 20psi you (should) have 6.5 bar in the rail. What do you run for a pump? A walbro? If so, that stuff ain't happening bro. Walbros suck past 75psi or so.
It's leaning out under load because fuel pressure is taking a dump.

468's at 5 bar is the same as the 50's at 4 bar. So if it's better up top you know it's a pressure issue.

I'd be shocked if it wasn't, walbro's hate those kind of pressures.



Those injectors are right about the same speed or slightly slower than saturated Bosch injectors so that's likely not the issue.

Dynamic injector mismatch wouldn't typically make things linearly rich/lean either.

Are you datalogging AFR's currently? Sorry I think maybe you were asked that already.

Anyways if you aren't you should. The gauge's response to misfires and whatnot is unpredictable. A high speed datalog will give a bit better picture.


You guys better start making some serious numbers when TT comes out. No more excuses. J/K

I know I just put the 468's back in so I could at least drive the car, and to confirm it was a tune calibration issue with the 625's.


I'm not datalogging - I need to get the RS232 connector, and now that I have a PC laptop (for TT), I assume I can readily find datalogging software. I looked on AEM's website & didn't find any info on datalogging. Any insight you can provide on setting up to datalog AFR's would be greatly appreciated!

[lookforjoe]

50lb Red's came today; Five-O provides flow data with the set



should have time to install them tomorrow..

[maciekb2002]

go for them !!!!
This time you should win.
What brand are those ? probably bosch

[lookforjoe]

Ordered Innovate IN-3790 & SSI-4 so I can start datalogging my shit. Getting tired of the seat of the pants testing & trying to note what AFR's are at... this does mean I'll need to start using a fkn PC, I guess. My mac laptop doesn't run Windows, it not intel processor. I'll need to do this for TT anyway, so I guess I'll just have to get used to the darkside

..put the 50lb reds in today, @ 4bar base (605cc) - 3.2bar under vacuum 5.2bar under current boost level of 22psi. AFR's settled to 14.7 @ idle no problem, but in a 3rd gear pull, AFR's climbed to 14 by the end of 3rd gear. So, it's too lean @ 605cc, and I'm still not up to 24psi

I'll try tweaking the base pressure to get the 625cc range back. This all suggests that the 625cc Siemens just don't like ME4.4 - I guess.

The vendor said they all flow tested "fine" but won't provide flow data unless I pay $10 per injector. Guess I won't be buying from EFI Components again.

[dongle]

lookforjoe, on 12 October 2009 - 02:59 AM, said:

I'll need to start using a fkn PC, I guess. My mac laptop doesn't run Windows, it not intel processor. I'll need to do this for TT anyway, so I guess I'll just have to get used to the darkside

Dell mini 9/10. Then you can has both!

[jnderr]

dongle, on 12 October 2009 - 04:02 AM, said:

Dell mini 9/10. Then you can has both!

Macbook and Paralells/vmware/virtualbox to run windows.

[dongle]

jnderr, on 12 October 2009 - 03:29 PM, said:

Macbook and Paralells/vmware/virtualbox to run windows.

Spending 4x as much is a great alternative.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a windows user. But Jesus Christ common sense.

I guess if he were looking to replace his current computer tha would be the way to go, I was just offering a cheap solution.

[lookforjoe]

I'm not looking to replace my Mac. I usually use my desktop G5 at home, and have a 4 yr old iBook that I use elsewhere. I also have a 3-4 year old Toshiba laptop on permanent loan that I haven't looked at yet (because I intensely dislike looking at windows)- I'm assuming I can use that for datalogging & TT.

Anyhow, got Adam to ride with me so I could get a short video with the 50lb'ers set to 4.2bar base (approx 625cc) now I'm in the ballpark the Woth tune is intended for. Don't know why the Siemens 625cc run so shitty in my setup, but they do.

Anyway here it is..

Youtube video from today


AFR's are much better! I also put the Volvo plugs back in gapped @ .029", as this morning I had missfiring over 20psi with the NGK race plugs (gapped @ .032" (probably could have tried regapping the NGK's, but I didn't feel like it).

The problem now is keeping the car on the road I plan on putting the BG back in, now that my oil pan mod is done.

[HeavyIron]

Holy Sh** Hussein Your breaking traction in an AWD! That wagon is amazing! Time to get back on the dyno and see where you are at...

[lookforjoe]

HeavyIron, on 13 October 2009 - 02:22 AM, said:

Holy Sh** Hussein Your breaking traction in an AWD! That wagon is amazing! Time to get back on the dyno and see where you are at...

In the interest of full disclosure - I'm not AWD right now (see last sentence of previous post ) - but, it does break free even with the AWD, just not this extreme, and no appreciable torque steer

Don't think I'm gonna dyno until I get my Innovate stuff & do a little datalogging/analysis. I want to make sure it's really right.

[PsychoWagon]

If I had the time and didn't need my car as a DD I would have loved to do your setup with the 20g. But because of time I had to throw on a "19T". Nevermind f'ing with the downpipe, all the drain tubes and feed lines would drive me absolutely insane for a weekend project. Not to mention I'm not the best welder. I gotta get this 98 s70 N/A up and running (got for $200) So I can have a second commuter to do my turboooooooo upgrade

If those red injectors are doing you well let us know as I'm very curious about them, and let me know how your walbro holds up

[volvotech97850]

Just watched the video. Very nice stuff there. I am officially pumped for a 6-speed.

[Big Will]

Hussein that video was awesome. Looks like things are about right.

[lookforjoe]

PsychoWagon, on 13 October 2009 - 03:53 AM, said:

If I had the time and didn't need my car as a DD I would have loved to do your setup with the 20g. But because of time I had to throw on a "19T". Nevermind f'ing with the downpipe, all the drain tubes and feed lines would drive me absolutely insane for a weekend project. Not to mention I'm not the best welder. I gotta get this 98 s70 N/A up and running (got for $200) So I can have a second commuter to do my turboooooooo upgrade

If those red injectors are doing you well let us know as I'm very curious about them, and let me know how your walbro holds up

The injectors are modified by Five-0 to run @ 50lbs, and they're working great!

The FP is the stock AWD pump - which is higher volume than the FWD models. I don't intend on replacing it anytime soon. Once the tune is revised so I can drop my base pressure back under 3.8bar, this pump should be fine. It was OK with the greens @ 5bar, just couldn't go over 17psi boost because it would lean out, but that's more likely due to the discrepancy between the tune & maxxing out the greens...

[dublin14]

Very nice!

[Mesoam]

Nice Hussein, time for a redyno?

[dublin14]

Are you still going with the TT?

[lookforjoe]

dublin14, on 13 October 2009 - 01:29 PM, said:

Are you still going with the TT?

Indeed I am. It's on it's way to me from CA

Mesoam, on 13 October 2009 - 12:58 PM, said:

Nice Hussein, time for a redyno?

Soon.

BTW - my oil smoke on heavy decel came back once I raised boost over 21psi - it only happens when testing, since in normal driving I don't wind it out to 7K in 3rd & then snap the throttle shut

[Captain Bondo]

lookforjoe, on 13 October 2009 - 03:08 PM, said:

BTW - my oil smoke on heavy decel came back once I raised boost over 21psi - it only happens when testing, since in normal driving I don't wind it out to 7K in 3rd & then snap the throttle shut

I would be very careful. My motor does this - and it can sometimes ping pretty bad on hard shifts- like at the drag strip - since you wind it out, snap the throttle shut, shift, and get back on it.

When you snap the throttle shut is sucks a bunch of oil into one or more of the combustion chambers.

In my case it's mostly due to the motor being tired, but I plan on a heavily improved crankcase breather system this winter nonetheless. Oil through the chambers is very bad. Maybe it's just the turbo...