33 replies to this topic

[EricF]

How about adjusting cam timing? Retard their timing a little to kind of level off that initial torque spike by moving the cam's torque profile a little higher in the rpm band?

[Wagoneer855]

EricF, on 02 October 2009 - 06:05 PM, said:

How about adjusting cam timing? Retard their timing a little to kind of level off that initial torque spike by moving the cam's torque profile a little higher in the rpm band?

How would I go about doing that? I was told to do that by another guy as well who has two turbo'd civics. I've never touched the cams. Is there a guide somewhere on here?

[jschaefer7406]

Hello all,

Hopefully some of you knowledgable guys will chime in here . I recently purchased a set of blue injectors for my planned tune (2000 S70 AWD, 15G and R mani). I'm considering ST's mild 12 psi tune. I know the blues aren't needed for this boost level, but I'd rather be cautious. Can Oliver tune the ECM for these injectors, or will I run into the same scenario that the OP has?

Thanks,

Joe

[lookforjoe]

Wagoneer855, on 03 October 2009 - 12:25 AM, said:

How would I go about doing that? I was told to do that by another guy as well who has two turbo'd civics. I've never touched the cams. Is there a guide somewhere on here?

Cam gears are slotted. Center of the slot is 0º. Typically, turbo's come with exhaust advanced. To retard the timing, slacken the three bolts just a little & use a pry bar wedged between two of them to turn the cams - clockwise = advance, counterclockwise = retard.

Just don't move either one more than a smidgeon at a time VMS's website still has the PDF for their cam gear tool for download - you can refer to that, also.

[EricF]

lookforjoe, on 07 October 2009 - 02:05 AM, said:

Cam gears are slotted. Center of the slot is 0º. Typically, turbo's come with exhaust advanced. To retard the timing, slacken the three bolts just a little & use a pry bar wedged between two of them to turn the cams - clockwise = advance, counterclockwise = retard.

Just don't move either one more than a smidgeon at a time VMS's website still has the PDF for their cam gear tool for download - you can refer to that, also.

I think a less stressful way to turn the gears would be with a ratchet on the crank pulley I've never bent a cam bolt doing it the other way, but they are just little M7 or whatever bolts.

[socal850tuner]

I would try running some oranges for injectors and see if your low end improves. 10's for afr sounds really rich. and considering its a stg II tune for a HPT it might be setup for oranges. What octane and brand of gas are you using?

[matt b]

Any update on this ? Have you had a chance to get a custom tune ?

My wagon (same as yours, just different color ) seemed to be getting misfires, but after pulling the plugs, it's probably fuel cuts (they are white...).

I run both an IPD tune and an X70 stock tunes, both give me similar results.

[Wagoneer855]

matt b, on 22 October 2009 - 03:47 AM, said:

Any update on this ? Have you had a chance to get a custom tune ?

My wagon (same as yours, just different color ) seemed to be getting misfires, but after pulling the plugs, it's probably fuel cuts (they are white...).

I run both an IPD tune and an X70 stock tunes, both give me similar results.

Sorry, no real updates. I've been busy replacing both my front hubs the last week, couldn't take the noise anymore.

Like I said, I had reds (5cc's more than oranges) and they were lean up top, so do you have a 325cc injectors I could borrow?

I've been told that the ECU should be compensating for fuel in the bottom-end, there's no possible way you can have an injector that runs rich in the bottom and lean on the top-end, that's the ECU's job to monitor. With the whites it runs perfect in the top-end. I think the only reason it's running rich in the bottom-end is because of the timing being pulled. At WOT, the ECU can only pull so much fuel.

I'm using 94octane from sunoco, only stuff I ever use.

The cam timing would be nice to change, but I'm still not certain how to do it, and what would that do for top-end?

Thinking out loud here, but if I use lower octane gas (91), wouldn't that burn later, possibly fixing the initial torque spike?

[matt b]

Where is your front o2 sensor mounted on the downpipe ? How is it, new-is, old ?

I drove my wagon this morning after rotor, cap, plugs, wires, Sconeman's intake pipe and some vac line clean up. I have also pulled the BOV and put my CBV back on and the car runs much, much better. I'm installing a WB this afternoon to keep an eye on the AFR's at different RPM's.

What flows at 325 cc ? If it's blues or whites, I could possibly part with mine for a couple of weeks, I have a spare rail and some orange tops I can run on a stock tune while you try to single out the problem.

[lookforjoe]

matt b, on 22 October 2009 - 01:07 PM, said:

Where is your front o2 sensor mounted on the downpipe ? How is it, new-is, old ?

I drove my wagon this morning after rotor, cap, plugs, wires, Sconeman's intake pipe and some vac line clean up. I have also pulled the BOV and put my CBV back on and the car runs much, much better. I'm installing a WB this afternoon to keep an eye on the AFR's at different RPM's.

What flows at 325 cc ? If it's blues or whites, I could possibly part with mine for a couple of weeks, I have a spare rail and some orange tops I can run on a stock tune while you try to single out the problem.

Blues & whites are about 395cc (blues @ 3.8bar, so less @ 3bar), I believe - it's in the pinned thread.

Wagoneer855, on 22 October 2009 - 05:22 AM, said:

I've been told that the ECU should be compensating for fuel in the bottom-end, there's no possible way you can have an injector that runs rich in the bottom and lean on the top-end, that's the ECU's job to monitor. With the whites it runs perfect in the top-end. I think the only reason it's running rich in the bottom-end is because of the timing being pulled. At WOT, the ECU can only pull so much fuel.

Not sure about that - it could depend on your tune's mapping to the hardware... if you run more boost/cfm's than it can accommodate, it will surely run lean up top. That's pretty much the scenario I had with the Woth tune dyno'd @ Carlisle..

[Wagoneer855]

lookforjoe, on 22 October 2009 - 03:59 PM, said:

Blues & whites are about 395cc (blues @ 3.8bar, so less @ 3bar), I believe - it's in the pinned thread.

Whites are 350cc @ 3bar, orange/reds are 315 @ 3bar, no inbetween. I'm using whites right now, and have oranges on a seperate rail if I ever want to swap them back in.

I'm thinking maybe it's the automatic tune and the BOV paired together or just the automatic tune with a manual in general. But it did it with the automatic tranny as well...

Maybe a knock sensor?

My front O2 is still the original and it's located in the location that the OBX exhaust comes with.

[matt b]

Didn't realize that you were running an auto tune. Here is my experience on doing that after my manual swap:

-timing seemed off, car was jerky and burned oil. Couldnt tell you if the oil was related to the ECU I was running, but it stopped after that and has never happened since.

I know that auto ECU run different timing than manual ones.

Greg, if you wanna borrow my IPD tune and see how the wagon runs, lemme know. It's an MTE, manual mapped tune.

[Wagoneer855]

matt b, on 22 October 2009 - 08:06 PM, said:

Didn't realize that you were running an auto tune. Here is my experience on doing that after my manual swap:

-timing seemed off, car was jerky and burned oil. Couldnt tell you if the oil was related to the ECU I was running, but it stopped after that and has never happened since.

I know that auto ECU run different timing than manual ones.

Greg, if you wanna borrow my IPD tune and see how the wagon runs, lemme know. It's an MTE, manual mapped tune.

Hmmm, I did not know this.

Wow man, that's really nice of you. I might take you up on that if I can't find someone local who has a manual tune. I know there are a few toronto guys who have actual manual tunes. Also, the car is being put away soon, I'm not sure how much longer I'll have it on the road before the snow falls.

[matt b]

Well, if all else fails, I'll have it at Carlisle and you can always try there. I always have at least one manual, turbo ECU with me, be it IPD's or an X70.

But hopefully youll have it figured out soon.