EOBD Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 There has been recent mention about doing some reprogramming etc of the 'older' Motronic 4.3/4.4 ECU's. I did look into this myself some time ago and did not take it further simply because I sold my car. However if there is sufficient interest and/or support from members on this forum then this 'project' could be advanced further. The aim is to do what many tuners have been doing before, namely adapting and tweaking what is already there.I would be interested in (1) Some form of real time data monitioring directly from the ECU(2) Potential for real time programming on the fly. (3) Building database of mods, files etc.As for the collating of information. It can either be done via forum thread, or perhaps more efficiently via a standalone website. Views are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackT5 Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I think this is something that several of us would be very interested in. I know there were several threads on this subject not too long ago, but there was not a lot of progress made. What do you have in mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Stig Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I'm with Mark, I'd love to see what you have in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I'm down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I would be interested and willing.I've been wondering if we can use the hall sensor in the cam position sensor on the exhaust cam to act as a spark trigger? If this is the case, full stand-alone may be $400 or so away, including nickel and diming...I'd be interested in something to interact with the Motronic system though, and something to modify the values it works off of would be killer too.If I get another 850 soon (which is my aim right now), then I could very easily start experimenting with getting Megasquirt 'n Spark working... Which IMO would be outstanding. School starts up again for me in a week or so, but hopefully I'll have another fairly relaxed semester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Jim Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 This sounds like a great project idea. I would love to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROB @ VMS Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I would be interested and willing.I've been wondering if we can use the hall sensor in the cam position sensor on the exhaust cam to act as a spark trigger? If this is the case, full stand-alone may be $400 or so away, including nickel and diming...I'd be interested in something to interact with the Motronic system though, and something to modify the values it works off of would be killer too.If I get another 850 soon (which is my aim right now), then I could very easily start experimenting with getting Megasquirt 'n Spark working... Which IMO would be outstanding. School starts up again for me in a week or so, but hopefully I'll have another fairly relaxed semester.←400 bucks for a standalone I cant believe you are even thinking about a standalone system with money being a big factor in what you wana do i take it. That alone in sensors is easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderlord Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 MS for our cars... hmm... that would be cool.. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROB @ VMS Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Im sure it would work great and i think the costs is around 400-500 bucks. But im sure thats not the finally cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 400 bucks for a standalone I cant believe you are even thinking about a standalone system with money being a big factor in what you wana do i take it. That alone in sensors is easy!←Not true.As far as aftermarket sensors go... IAT sensor, Coolant temp sensor, and I believe that is all. The 850's TPS works with MS, the MAP sensor for MS is on-board. The coolant and IAT sensor won't set you back too much. I don't know where my receipts are, but I know for a fact that I am not spending more than $300 on the setup in my GT... And I also had to purchase a new TPS for that setup.Kenny is selling pre-assembled MS kits for $280 right now (though they may or may not work as he has them configured in our 850s), in case and everything, and I believe that price comes with a flying-leads harness as well (the wires were long enough to get where they needed to go in my GT).-MS Board with case and harness: $280-Coolant temp sensor and IAT sensor: <$50 ?-Wires, zip ties, crimp connectors (or solder), electrical tape: <$10-Extra resistors or necessary pieces to have it work with the 850's hall sensor?: <$10There may well be more costs, but those are the definite ones, and any that arise during installation will not be astronomically expensive.It's not expensive at all. It works with the stock hi-impedance injectors with no modifications... The problems would lie in someone actually doing it on an 850 to figure out any obstacles and complications that may up the cost or require a different board configuration of Megasquirt.If someone takes the time (and it would really take a lot of time and patience and research and knowledge) to figure out how it would work in an 850, it could become a very viable options for those who wish to tune beyond the Mitsubishi family of turbos, or would like more accurate and engaging tuning for Mitsubishi turbos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Another thing: converting to a constant injection system (er, all injectors see the same signal) from a sequential injection shouldn't really matter... Right?I'm not sure about MS and sequential injection... I'm relatively sure I have seen a few cases of people using it, but from what I recall it is more trouble than it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderlord Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Eric... let's talk 70 series.. Assuming that someone does do all the inital leg work on the 850, any idea what other obstacles may lie for accomplishing this on the 70 series? or would there be any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poi Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Ya rob, you're wrong again. You can get an MSnS box up and running for under 400$. It'd be even cheaper than that if you build it yourself, and that requires little more than basic soldering knowledge. It isn't a bolt on, but you dont need to drop tens of thousands of dollars to get more performance, and seeing as programmable engine management is the key to reliable and efficient power, a cheap and effective engine management interests quite a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Eric... let's talk 70 series.. Assuming that someone does do all the inital leg work on the 850, any idea what other obstacles may lie for accomplishing this on the 70 series? or would there be any?←For a '98, it should be about the same. I don't know for sure though, don't really have any experience with 70 series cars... I assume Motronic 4.3 and 4.4 interface with the same sensors. 99+ though would be another story though entirely... You would have to program a MS output for the throttle and probably some number of different frustrating and pioneerish things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poi Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Another thing: converting to a constant injection system (er, all injectors see the same signal) from a sequential injection shouldn't really matter... Right?I'm not sure about MS and sequential injection... I'm relatively sure I have seen a few cases of people using it, but from what I recall it is more trouble than it's worth.←Correct. Sequential injection is really only for emissions at low RPM, above about 2k rpm, it is impossible to time an injection event with the opening of an intake valve as the injection pulsewidth will be longer than the valve open time. Its a common misconception that fuel injectors are pulsed to time injection events: they are pulsed to allow for a simple on/off (and therefore reliable) design, the percentage of open time vs. total passed time (an thus the fuel flow) is what is controlled by the fuel computer. This is why the first mechanical fuel injection systems were constant systems: changing fuel pressure changed the fuel flow, there was no pulsign.And anyway, Im pretty sure 850's are batch fire anyway.For a '98, it should be about the same. I don't know for sure though, don't really have any experience with 70 series cars... I assume Motronic 4.3 and 4.4 interface with the same sensors. 99+ though would be another story though entirely... You would have to program a MS output for the throttle and probably some number of different frustrating and pioneerish things.←I think the solution would be to simply throw on a throttle spool. Aside from the fact itll make everything easier, its gives you a lot better control over what the throttle's doing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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