Fwd Turbo Ideas

[EricF]

Well, it is my personal opinion that the turbo upgrade options for the conical 15G equipped cars are vastly overpriced for the returns someone would see from them...

So, I'd like to offer a couple of my own ideas, and offer to help someone put one of these turbos together if they want to try it.

1. TD05 DSM turbos: 16G / Big 16G / 18G. These would be useable with a Volvo TD05-12B turbine housing off of a 740, and some machine work... I think someone could exceed what you could achieve on a 16T substantially with one of these turbos, and you could retain the stock downpipe as well. Prices for these turbos aren't always amazing, but the power potential ought to be on par with the price.

2. 60 trim T3: These are very readily available in used car parts circles, typically from a Ford Turbo Mustang or T-bird. A 60 trim T3 compressor is about on par with a 16T, though the T3 turbine side probably wouldn't have the boost fade issues associated with most smaller FWD turbos. Ways for this to work would be machining the manifold flat (which would enable you to use a Ford .63 A/R turbine housing-- the Volvo .63 A/R housing is very rare), or to use a Volvo .48 A/R turbine housing. Either of these options would allow you to use the stock downpipe... And this turbo can typically be had for $150-200 in excellent shape, cheaper if you find one in a yard.

Those are all I can think of right now (I'm sure Doug will talk about the Holsets ), but figured I would get it out there in its own thread, because I'd love to see some people try some unorthodox stuff that should be pretty successful

I'd be willing to put together one of these turbos if someone is unsure about doing it themselves, but I'd mostly just be interested in seeing how well they do work, rather than making it a business type thing.

I need an 850 again :(

[PullMyFinger]

Very interesting indeed.

What would you need from me?

I have a '94 with the conical 15g, full 3" turbo back and BSR chip.

How much experimenting do you think it would take? as this is my daily driver. I do have access to loaner cars though if need be.

[EricF]

Very interesting indeed.

What would you need from me?

I have a '94 with the conical 15g, full 3" turbo back and BSR chip.

How much experimenting do you think it would take? as this is my daily driver. I do have access to loaner cars though if need be.

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Just a commitment to buy it if I put it together Maybe a deposit or something, as I don't have that much money to throw around. I'd source parts locally and use parts in my garage to actually put it together.

Putting the turbo together should be the majority of the work. The Ford T3 might require some help with oil lines (specifically, it would almost for sure require a custom return line-- easiest made by cutting off the two ends of the stock line and putting some silicon oil return line hosing in between.

I'd try to get it as bolt-on as possible though, and there really shouldn't be too much experimenting work on the end of the buyer except maybe playing with boost levels and such :)

[turbor850]

Good ideas Eric. Though I am not a fan of porting out the turbine side because they tend to crack a whole lot easier. I beleive another good idea would be just to but a TD05 housing (T3 flange) with 7 or 8 cm^2 housing, mate that to a bigger wheel (Super 60/16G), maybe port the stock compressor side to fit a big big wheel (18G), call it a day. Keep the same Volvo center cartrigde so stock oil and water lines. That would seem pretty feasable.

[EricF]

Good ideas Eric.  Though I am not a fan of porting out the turbine side because they tend to crack a whole lot easier.  I beleive another good idea would be just to but a TD05 housing (T3 flange) with 7 or 8 cm^2 housing, mate that to a bigger wheel (Super 60/16G), maybe port the stock compressor side to fit a big big wheel (18G), call it a day.  Keep the same Volvo center cartrigde so stock oil and water lines.  That would seem pretty feasable.

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What TD05 housings had T3 flanges?

Also milling out the TD05-12B housing wouldn't make it more prone to cracking, or shouldn't. Turbine housings typically just crack around the wastegate flapper, and this wouldn't be touching any material there. This will be the lip that sits very tightly around the turbine wheel...

Also, I think TD05 center housings *probably* have the same oil/coolant lines with the possible exception of the oil drain. Fabbing oil and coolant lines is a lot cheaper than putting different wheels on a TD04 center cartridge, machining a housing, and having it all re-balanced

That's an idea as well though. It all depends on the resources you have available to you I think.

[PullMyFinger]

How about a ballpark on price?

Some questions:

The 740 turbo (TD05-12B) will bolt up to my stock manifold and downpipe with no modifications other than some machining on the flange that you will provide?

What about the compressor. Do you use the entire 16g? or put the 16g wheel inside the 12b housing? I'm not very clear on that.

I see several 740 turbos on ebay, is that something you already have or can get easily?

What about the oil lines. If we use the 740 turbo, will they match up with my existing oil lines and water lines?

What about the compressor inlet and outlet, is that the same size and position as the 15g?

While looking at some 740 turbos on ebay, they seem to have a different shape.

I'm very interested, so fill me in some on what you would be offering me and your timeframe.

[turbor850]

What TD05 housings had T3 flanges?

Also milling out the TD05-12B housing wouldn't make it more prone to cracking, or shouldn't. Turbine housings typically just crack around the wastegate flapper, and this wouldn't be touching any material there. This will be the lip that sits very tightly around the turbine wheel...

Also, I think TD05 center housings *probably* have the same oil/coolant lines with the possible exception of the oil drain. Fabbing oil and coolant lines is a lot cheaper than putting different wheels on a TD04 center cartridge, machining a housing, and having it all re-balanced

That's an idea as well though. It all depends on the resources you have available to you I think.

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Not saying all TD05 have T3, all of HRC's TD05 housings are T3 (but they are 10cm^2). Why would you mill out the 12B housing if it is the same size as the 15G housing, 6cm^2 ? Why not just mill out the 15G housing, mill out the compressor housing, and put a bigger wheel in ? ? ?

TD05 center housings don't have same coolant lines, they are different, you need the 740 turbo coolant lines to fit it properly, but I think they do have same oil, 12 X 1.5 mm.

[EricF]

How about a ballpark on price?

Some questions:

The 740 turbo (TD05-12B) will bolt up to my stock manifold and downpipe with no modifications other than some machining on the flange that you will provide?

What about the compressor. Do you use the entire 16g? or put the 16g wheel inside the 12b housing? I'm not very clear on that.

I see several 740 turbos on ebay, is that something you already have or can get easily?

What about the oil lines. If we use the 740 turbo, will they match up with my existing oil lines and water lines?

What about the compressor inlet and outlet, is that the same size and position as the 15g?

While looking at some 740 turbos on ebay, they seem to have a different shape.

I'm very interested, so fill me in some on what you would be offering me and your timeframe.

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Well, depending on if I can find a blown TD05-12B, I might be able to get that for cheap. The idea is that turbine housing bolts onto the Volvo manifold with no problem, but I would check to ensure that's the case on one of my own.

The modifications to the turbine housing would be machining out the area right around the turbine wheel, so the 16G turbine wheel would fit in with the clearances it needs to fit and spool properly.

Basically, all that is being done is the TD05-12B Volvo turbine housing is being put on a TD05-16G so it will bolt to our manifold... It also has the 2.5" compression fitting downpipe.

I'm not sure how the housings will need to be clocked, but I assume I would need to fabricate you a wastegate actuator bracket.

It would probably work with stock oil and coolant lines except the drain probably. I'd have to check all of that when I get it though.

Assuming I could get the 12B for around 100, machine the turbine housing for 40-50, and get a used 16G or big 16G for 250-300... Plus cost for my trouble, probably $500 or so? It would really depend on how much I have to pay for everything. It could very well be a good deal less than that.

If you just want a 16G, you might want to consider the 60 trim T3 route?

[turbor850]

Well, depending on if I can find a blown TD05-12B, I might be able to get that for cheap. The idea is that turbine housing bolts onto the Volvo manifold with no problem, but I would check to ensure that's the case on one of my own.

The modifications to the turbine housing would be machining out the area right around the turbine wheel, so the 16G turbine wheel would fit in with the clearances it needs to fit and spool properly.

Basically, all that is being done is the TD05-12B Volvo turbine housing is being put on a TD05-16G so it will bolt to our manifold... It also has the 2.5" compression fitting downpipe.

I'm not sure how the housings will need to be clocked, but I assume I would need to fabricate you a wastegate actuator bracket.

It would probably work with stock oil and coolant lines except the drain probably. I'd have to check all of that when I get it though.

Assuming I could get the 12B for around 100, machine the turbine housing for 40-50, and get a used 16G or big 16G for 250-300... Plus cost for my trouble, probably $500 or so? It would really depend on how much I have to pay for everything. It could very well be a good deal less than that.

If you just want a 16G, you might want to consider the 60 trim T3 route?

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Ahhhhh, excellent plan Eric, I see now where your going with this. . . . I think the stock oil lines will work (12X1.5mm), but the coolant will not (i think). But this does sound like an interesting plan.

[ROB @ VMS]

We are working with garrett to have a custom Turbo made to directly fit the T5 manifolds.

[PullMyFinger]

Well, that certainly sounds interesting too Rob. But I'm assuming the price will be substantially more than the combo Eric is talking about.

Any ideas on ballpark price of the Garret?

Eric - You think the T3 route would be easier? I'm not really sure exactly *what* I want. So much as I want a bigger turbo and a fairly straightforward installation. I'm certainly willing and able to fiddle with things some and experiment a bit though. I'm also unsure about my BSR chip. I assume I'd need to go up to larger injectors, maybe 395s or so. What about setting/controlling the boost level? Would I need an additional controller on top of my BSR chip? Like a manual or electronic boost controller? Also, with the T3 I'd need to get my exhaust manifold machined, correct? Or is that something you can have done and then I'd swap you my stock manifold after installation. Do you have a manifold for test fitting etc.?

[orange850t]

I have a 95 855t that is begging for a turbo upgrade. I'd be willing to throw you some seed money to get a solution in the 500 buck range that is more or less a bolt on relacement to my stupid conical 15g.

Call it an installment plan. I was currently considering a 16t,chip and downpipe but that gets a bit pricey (cause I gots two kids )

[Guest DougK]

if you can find a 60trim t3 exhaust side from a volvo and a 60trim compressor side from a ferd it'll be a bolt on (as far as the manifold is concerned).

Sounds intresting Eric. I'd LOVE to see someone throw a holset on... that requires about every supporting mod on earth though.

[orange850t]

so a turbo from a 740 and one from a not too ragged out t-bird?(shouldn't be hard to find one of them <====sarcasam)

[orange850t]

this is unce's pics of a 13c and a 16g.

Sooooooooo where do I get a nice low mileage 16g..