OK, I'm fed up with this timing pull crap. Last night I went out to a meet, got called out by a 14b eclipse, thing ran me hard! He had every other mod, cams/open dump/front mount, but still I didn't expect to get run badly by a stock 14b eclipse. Oh well, so I was at 18-19 PSI and felt her pull the timing at 5500 RPM. How the hell do I get rid of this without using race fuel?
btw... he got me by 1 - 1 1/2 cars and I had a passenger and 2 subs/full interior/pump gas/18 PSI and massive timing pull... 45 - 90 MPH roll
36 replies to this topic
#1
JHEIII874T5M
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 05:19 PM
Joseph H. Essaye III
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#2
ROB @ VMS
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 05:23 PM
Did you hear any sort of Knock. High octane fuel is the right way to cure that problem. Better Cooling ect ect. Water injection if you dont already have that. Timing is gona get pulled when the car see knock so i would pull down the boost a tad and you will prob make the same power.
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#3 Guest_Guest_*
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 05:33 PM
Eh, Joseph.. You're still on the stock downpipe and exhaust (meaning diameter), right? 5500 RPM + 16T + 19psi is demanding quite a bit of flow.. which you don't have. What you were feeling was most likely the engine being choked by exhaust backpressure at higher RPMs. Sure, there was most likely some timing being pulled as well, but keep in mind that the most timing retard usually occurs at peak torque (aka peak cylinder pressure). Tell me, does the car feel any faster or slower at ~1 bar on the same gas?
#4 Guest_Guest_*
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 05:37 PM
BTW, if you think timing retard is annoying, try fuel cut when you're boosting onto the highway!! >[
Grr...
(I never thought I'd miss my POS Upsolute chip so much)
Grr...
(I never thought I'd miss my POS Upsolute chip so much)
#5
JHEIII874T5M
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 05:41 PM
Rob... knock isn't heard. Guess the catless and mufflerless, resonator only setup makes that hard. I do not have water injection.
Yes it is the stock diamter downpipe however is catless and is running with only a free flow magnaflow magnapack/resonator in the whole system. I can tell the difference between exhuast backup and timing pull. The car didn't have the same symptoms on race fuel. Not only that, but it's tempermental. I will have it at 17 PSI and it will be fine, very little timing pull. Then 19 PSI fine, another run at 19 PSI car is hesitating, another run pulls hard, another run car is hesitating. Grrrrr.
Yes it is the stock diamter downpipe however is catless and is running with only a free flow magnaflow magnapack/resonator in the whole system. I can tell the difference between exhuast backup and timing pull. The car didn't have the same symptoms on race fuel. Not only that, but it's tempermental. I will have it at 17 PSI and it will be fine, very little timing pull. Then 19 PSI fine, another run at 19 PSI car is hesitating, another run pulls hard, another run car is hesitating. Grrrrr.
Joseph H. Essaye III
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#6
JLT
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 05:47 PM
what is timing pull
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98 Volvo S70 T5A ~300WHP when crashed.
#7
JHEIII874T5M
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 05:52 PM
QUOTE(JLT @ Oct 14 2004, 01:47 PM)
what is timing pull
where the car detects knock and will retard the timing
Joseph H. Essaye III
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#8
850 GLT
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 06:08 PM
I would think the best remedy would be new intercooler and water injection. The reason it runs fine for a couple runs and then starts to pull timing is probably heat soak. The air going into the intake manifold is getting too hot so it pulls timing. That's just a guess though.
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#9
lax01
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 06:10 PM
or a very quick way to cool down the I/C is using sometype of liquid nitrogen or turning a can of compressed air upside and spraying the I/C....however, with the condensor in front of the I/C, I don't know what kind of effects this will have on the condensor...
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#10
TorqueSteer
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 06:55 PM
Thats why my condensor is going bye bye, and im gonna setup a cry02 spray on the intercooler....
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#11
JHEIII874T5M
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 07:50 PM
i've tried spraying keyboard spray onto the car during a dyno run, it made it richer, but lost power because it made it realllly rich.
Joseph H. Essaye III
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#12
turbor850
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 09:52 PM
maybe do something with the cam gears ? 
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#13
JHEIII874T5M
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 11:15 PM
QUOTE(turbor850 @ Oct 14 2004, 05:52 PM)
maybe do something with the cam gears ?
oh an in-car cam gear adjuster yes! lol
Joseph H. Essaye III
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#14
turbor850
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 11:20 PM
QUOTE(JHEIII850Turbo @ Oct 14 2004, 06:15 PM)
QUOTE(turbor850 @ Oct 14 2004, 05:52 PM)
maybe do something with the cam gears ?
oh an in-car cam gear adjuster yes! lol
excellent !
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#15
InlineTurbo
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Posted 15 October 2004 - 12:32 AM
There was a 14b equiped Eclipse around here that was running 12.5s. He had every other mod in the world done, but it is possible. Mildly tuned you can get a 1G 14b into the mid to low 13s pretty easily.
I'll have to second the intercooler upgrade. My car used to run strong for a couple of runs and then run slow as crap. After the Atech intercooler it is a lot more consistant. If I had a cat back and downpipe it would probably be even better.
I'll have to second the intercooler upgrade. My car used to run strong for a couple of runs and then run slow as crap. After the Atech intercooler it is a lot more consistant. If I had a cat back and downpipe it would probably be even better.
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#16
BlackT5
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Posted 15 October 2004 - 01:32 AM
You could retard the cam timing by a degrees or two. It will shift the powerband up a a little and should help compensate a little for the ECU pulling ignition timing.
Of course, IC & water injection etc.. will all help aswell
Of course, IC & water injection etc.. will all help aswell
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#17
EricF
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Posted 15 October 2004 - 01:39 AM
Retarding the cam timing would just increase the demands on the turbo to flow more air at those higher rpm's.
I suggest looking into a cheap water/methanol injection setup (pm me for some ideas I have) with a window switch set for higher rpms, or improving the intercooler or flow of air to the intercooler.
I suggest looking into a cheap water/methanol injection setup (pm me for some ideas I have) with a window switch set for higher rpms, or improving the intercooler or flow of air to the intercooler.
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#18
JHEIII874T5M
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Posted 15 October 2004 - 02:03 PM
hey eric, I've been thinking of that water/methanol injection, I think we're going to have some fun making one soon 
Joseph H. Essaye III
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#19
turbor850
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Posted 15 October 2004 - 03:36 PM
QUOTE(JHEIII850Turbo @ Oct 15 2004, 09:03 AM)
hey eric, I've been thinking of that water/methanol injection, I think we're going to have some fun making one soon
mine has been sitting in my room for 2 years for the group buy waaaaaay back and still haven't installed it
The Old Sold 850R - Dyno Tuned To ~ 340whp 388wtq @ 22.5 psi - 20G - AUTO - Mustang Dyno - EPL #1 Cheerleader
FIRST TO PUT 20G ON AN 850R
Current Car : 2010 VW GTI - Stock
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#20
odell1523
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Posted 15 October 2004 - 07:27 PM
anyone know what our stock ICs flow??? and im with you chris i still havent installed the darn aquamist...
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custom tuned ECU set at 19psi
optiflow intake,turboxs rfl bov w/ block off plate
reverse IC,aquamist 2d, 3" turboback(catless)
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yet to install: FMIC KIT!
