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Collapsed Intercooler Hoses Due To Cold


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#1 Ali

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 03:16 AM

This morning I started the car and it was making a weid sound, and it would shut off as soon as I would step on the gas. I popped to hood to find 2 intercooler hoses had collapsed. I asked the local Volvo Dealer about this and they said that the moisture and oil inside the intercooler probably froze up and that I should let the car warm up for a while to defrost it.

I did just that and everything was well. I am afraid that it will happen again. What are my options now? They also told me to clear the weep hole, and clean out the intercooler.

Is there any way to clean it out without removing it from the car?

Any info regarding this would be helpful.

Thanks
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#2 --Aaron--

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 03:20 AM

Have you replaced your I/C hoses lately and how is their condition i.e. soft? I ask because you could make the switch to silicone it'd take ALOT to collapse them then.

#3 il bambino martino

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 03:24 AM

suuuuuure wink.gif

As I mentioned it in another thread today, it happened to me as well, around Christmas.

Stylin (sp?) on here sells those hoses in beautiful colours, and while I haven't ordered mine yet, I intend to. Changing the hoses would probably be the best course of action. Cleaning the bleed hole too, I suppose. Can't see why cleaning the intercooler is particularly necessary.

It was like -30 C(anadian speak tongue.gif ) this morning in New Brunswick and I had no problem starting the car. I think the blockage in the weep hole is the major culprit, and the weakened intercooler hoses a secondary one.
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#4 Guest_hank_*

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 03:03 AM

I have the same issue and replace them with silicon ones. Still not solved. Something must get clogged and replacing them did not fix it at all. Putting the car into a heated garage is so far the only solution. Getting back from work at -10F is a getting a problem. Someone knows what is going on . I also flushed the intercooler with gasoline a few days ago still and drilled a second small hole in the bottom. All not making a real improvement everytime it gets below -10F it comes back...


#5 ACiancio

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 03:17 AM

QUOTE (hank @ Jan 16 2009, 08:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have the same issue and replace them with silicon ones. Still not solved. Something must get clogged and replacing them did not fix it at all. Putting the car into a heated garage is so far the only solution. Getting back from work at -10F is a getting a problem. Someone knows what is going on . I also flushed the intercooler with gasoline a few days ago still and drilled a second small hole in the bottom. All not making a real improvement everytime it gets below -10F it comes back...


take off your intake hose at the engine and check your throttle body, you may have some carbon buildup that can cause the butterfly to stick and it gets worse when its cold, spray some carb./FI cleaner around the butterfly and wipe it out by hand, also operate the throttle right there and watch the butterfly and make sure it moves freely

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2.4L L5 20V Turbo, Auto tranny

#6 Guest_hank_*

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 04:32 AM

QUOTE (ACiancio @ Jan 17 2009, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
take off your intake hose at the engine and check your throttle body, you may have some carbon buildup that can cause the butterfly to stick and it gets worse when its cold, spray some carb./FI cleaner around the butterfly and wipe it out by hand, also operate the throttle right there and watch the butterfly and make sure it moves freely

A stupid question. Where is the throttle body located. Would I get to it if I follow the lower hose connected to the bottom of the intercooler? or should I follow the upper hose to get to it. I have been looking for pictures of the engine compartment to find it with no luck so far. I am sure there are some somewhere...

#7 Guest_hank_*

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 04:46 AM

QUOTE (hank @ Jan 17 2009, 04:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A stupid question. Where is the throttle body located. Would I get to it if I follow the lower hose connected to the bottom of the intercooler? or should I follow the upper hose to get to it. I have been looking for pictures of the engine compartment to find it with no luck so far. I am sure there are some somewhere...



Here the issue why I am confused. I thought that the throttle body was inbetween the intercooler and the intake manifold. I hope I am wrong on this. I am convinced that something is clogged in front with respect to airflow through the intercooler and not afterwards. So Where is the throttle body located with respect to the airflow. Before or after the air enters intercooler? If it is before I would agree that the throttle body is the reason.



#8 lookforjoe

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 05:21 AM

QUOTE (hank @ Jan 16 2009, 11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here the issue why I am confused. I thought that the throttle body was inbetween the intercooler and the intake manifold. I hope I am wrong on this. I am convinced that something is clogged in front with respect to airflow through the intercooler and not afterwards. So Where is the throttle body located with respect to the airflow. Before or after the air enters intercooler? If it is before I would agree that the throttle body is the reason.


throttle body





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#9 AlvinL

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 05:30 AM

The engine needs to breathe in air and is not getting it. The throttle body is where it enters so that not the problem. The blockage is between the last collapsed hose and the air filter. A plugged air filter that is wet and now frozen the cause?

#10 flaco

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 06:10 AM

QUOTE (AlvinL @ Jan 17 2009, 12:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The engine needs to breathe in air and is not getting it. The throttle body is where it enters so that not the problem. The blockage is between the last collapsed hose and the air filter. A plugged air filter that is wet and now frozen the cause?


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#11 Guest_hank_*

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 05:41 PM

QUOTE (AlvinL @ Jan 17 2009, 05:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The engine needs to breathe in air and is not getting it. The throttle body is where it enters so that not the problem. The blockage is between the last collapsed hose and the air filter. A plugged air filter that is wet and now frozen the cause?



Thanks for all the help from everyone. Posting the picture confirmed that the butterfly valve is inbetween the intercooler and intake manifold. I will check the butterfly valve even so I do not think it is the problem since it is on the wong side of the airflow.

So here the summary for those having the same problem: Replacing the hoses did not fix the problem, flushing the intercooler did not fix the problem, cleaning out the drainage hole did not fix the problem, drilling another drainage hole did not fix the problem. Conclusion: Something still gets clogged. Problem might still be the intercooler but the amount of condensation and oil that dripps out when I remove the bottom hose placing the car in a heated garage is small so I am not convinced that this is truely the issue. I begin to believe that something else infront of the intercoler gets clogged. Anything before the intercooler going to the turbo charger going to the airfilter. Anyone has some advice on where it could be??????????

Considering the diameter of the hoses and that they are clean and new I have little ideas of where it could be.

I am out of ideas at the moment and feel like a sheep.gif. sheep.gif fixing a bunch of things that did not help....

Thanks to all of you for the help even posting pictures...


#12 Ghost Shadow

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 07:05 PM

when you "flushed" the intercooler with gasoline, how did you do that?

did you take the intercooler off the vehicle?

should register too, its free

#13 BEJinFBK

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 08:58 PM

So...IS the air filter OK?
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#14 Hank Jacobs

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 11:02 PM

QUOTE (BEJinFBK @ Jan 17 2009, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So...IS the air filter OK?


Ok officially registered...

Did test the airfilter. The airfilter is dry and clean.
Did clean the intake throttle box. It had some carbon deposit but the butterfly valve (if this is the flap) turned fine to open the channel. Again I do not think that the problem is the butterfly valve for those experiencing the same problem.

The temperature in Minnesota is up to above 0F which means that the problem disappears.
Anyway nothing has been fixed and it will come back as soon as temps go below approx -10F.

Could something arround the turbo get clogged. I do not think so but I am just asking...
All in all looking at this it might still be a problem with the intercooler and I would like to bypass it if this would be an easy option when it gets that cold..

#15 Hank Jacobs

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 11:07 PM

QUOTE (burg_855t @ Jan 17 2009, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
when you "flushed" the intercooler with gasoline, how did you do that?

did you take the intercooler off the vehicle?

should register too, its free


I removed the upper hose and left the hose at the bottom of the intercooler attached which loops up to about 70% of the total height (or more) until it loops down again to the turbo charger (850 Glt 97) to ensure that there is no way for water to get
First I used water and sope.

#16 Hank Jacobs

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 11:20 PM

QUOTE (Hank Jacobs @ Jan 17 2009, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I removed the upper hose and left the hose at the bottom of the intercooler attached which loops up to about 70% of the total height (or more) until it loops down again to the turbo charger (850 Glt 97) to ensure that there is no way for liquid to get into the turbo charger. I could not find other hoses and decided first to poor hot water in there with sope. The idea was to thaw the intercooler. After about 10s or so I could see water come out from the 2 mm in diameter drainage hole. I used about a galon of water and went slowly since I do not know what the capacy of the aircooler is since I do want to overfill.....

The water to my disappointment was quite clean as it came out. So I thought I need a better solvent and went for gasoline again 1 galon since I did not have anything better. Perhaps something else might be even better. Anyway when it came out it clearly did dissolve oil deposits as it turned brown/black in color. Nothing too serious so. It was not super black suggesting that the intercooler was not super dirty to begin with. This is all a matter of perspective. Finally I removed the lower rubber hose to ensure that all the gas was removed form the system. Put it back in reverse that it..


#17 Hank Jacobs

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 12:29 AM

Intake air on Volvo 850 GLT gets blocked when it gets below -10F. This is a know problem and Borton Volvo in Minneapolis suggest to park the car in a warm place. This is how they "repair" sad.gif the problem when people get towed to Borton Volvo. Last week they got busy....


Summary so far:

-Replace collapsing hoses with silicon one but this did not remove the 100% obstruction.
-Flushed the Intercooler, dilled out a second drainage hole, and placed in heated garage -> the car was running fine next morning giving the false impression that it was fixed.
-100% Obstruction/Blockage came back in the evening after being parked outside at work at -20F
-When obstucted, sticked two screwdrivers in between the shaft and the upper hose for air to get into the engine and drove home with 20 miles/per hour. I do not recommend this.... as the car did stall sometimes. Bigger hole or smaller does not make a big difference as things seem to be controlled by a computer to idle at low rpms..
- Next moring I started the car with the screw drivers in place to provide some air leaving it run for an hour with the hood closed checking every 5 minutes. I have done this in previous years and know it to work. The obstruction will disappear at one point. This is interesting thinking about this. It does not appear to be a linear process where the obstruction thaws away making room for more and more air. Instead it is highly non linear. The time interval from no air to full air is perhaps only a few minutes. Does this mean something to you? Any ideas? I still do not know for sure that the blockage is in the intercooler.
-Cleaned Trottle box butterfly even so it did not cause the obstruction. Would not recommend. Blockage must be upsteam of any collapsing hose.
-Checked for wet air/dirty airfilter since this is upstream. (good suggestion but no obstruction here)
-Looked down the inside of the hose from the airfilter to the turbo charger and noticed that there was some oil deposit at the lower end of it close to the turbo charger. (nothing to totally block the flow).
-Looked at the other side of the turbo charger (outside only) an noticed some oil outside the rubber hose (nothing out of the oridinary). I do not think that the turbo charger could block the flow since it is spinning. Any input here.

Conclusion
What does not work so do not waste time and money: I would not recommend to replace the hoses (there seemed to be some that like to sell them but this is not the problem), I also would not recommend to flush the aircooler=intercoller, nor clean the airfilter since none of this appears to really fix the problem.

What works: Move to Florida or get a space heater and put it underneath. This cannot be the solution... we should not settle for Borton Volvo's fix. Any Ideas for a real solution????

Open Question: Where is the obstruction? I still believe it is in the intercooler to cause the blockage.

Is someone is reading this and has the same problem since the temps <-10F you should do consider the following test. I will not be able to do this myself unless it gets sufficiently cold again. If your upper hose collapses investigate the lower hose to check if it contracts as well. Perhaps you could partially remove it to see if the upper hose relaxes. If this is the case it would not be the intercooler.

Any other suggestions are highly appreciated since Volvos suggestion to simply park the car in a heated place seems not feasible for many living up north. I thought it could get cold in sweden as well..



#18 Gilhuly

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 01:21 AM

It has to be blockage inside the intercooler creating the vacuum. I can't imagine that this happened when they were new or they would have recalled them. I'll bet if the intercooler could be flushed with a warm solvent under some modest pressure this condition could be cured. I'll bet hot simple green would do the trick. Something in there is pretty gluey normally and may be trapping moisture or maybe not, but when it gets really cold this stuff is really firming up r freezing. The condition that allows the moisture to get trapped up in there (probably in the upper part) is what needs to be alleviated. You could replace the intercooler or...

You could use a coolant pan, a bilge pump, some fittings and hoses to rig a unit that will force the solvent through the intercooler under pressure through the intercooler and down a return line back into your coolant pan. You'll have to plug the weep holes.

Either way, you can't have very good flow through that thing even thawed.

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#19 Hank Jacobs

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 01:56 AM

QUOTE (Gilhuly @ Jan 17 2009, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It has to be blockage inside the intercooler creating the vacuum. I can't imagine that this happened when they were new or they would have recalled them. I'll bet if the intercooler could be flushed with a warm solvent under some modest pressure this condition could be cured. I'll bet hot simple green would do the trick. Something in there is pretty gluey normally and may be trapping moisture or maybe not, but when it gets really cold this stuff is really firming up r freezing. The condition that allows the moisture to get trapped up in there (probably in the upper part) is what needs to be alleviated. You could replace the intercooler or...

You could use a coolant pan, a bilge pump, some fittings and hoses to rig a unit that will force the solvent through the intercooler under pressure through the intercooler and down a return line back into your coolant pan. You'll have to plug the weep holes.

Either way, you can't have very good flow through that thing even thawed.



Ok.. So you think that the intercooler remains the problem. I should flush this thing once more and this time cycling fluid through it. What fluid would work best? Soapy water that was left in there standing for some time did not do the trick (I used a gallon with some modest amounts of seventh generation detergent) but again it was standing in there and not much gue came out using this method. Thanks for the tip..

#20 Ghost Shadow

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 01:59 AM

QUOTE (Gilhuly @ Jan 17 2009, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It has to be blockage inside the intercooler creating the vacuum. I can't imagine that this happened when they were new or they would have recalled them. I'll bet if the intercooler could be flushed with a warm solvent under some modest pressure this condition could be cured. I'll bet hot simple green would do the trick. Something in there is pretty gluey normally and may be trapping moisture or maybe not, but when it gets really cold this stuff is really firming up r freezing. The condition that allows the moisture to get trapped up in there (probably in the upper part) is what needs to be alleviated. You could replace the intercooler or...

You could use a coolant pan, a bilge pump, some fittings and hoses to rig a unit that will force the solvent through the intercooler under pressure through the intercooler and down a return line back into your coolant pan. You'll have to plug the weep holes.

Either way, you can't have very good flow through that thing even thawed.


i second that thought the flow must suck when its thawed.

i think there maybe moisture from the water freezing up inside. i would pull the intercooler off the car. in none of your posts did you say you actually pulled the intercooler off the car. only way i can think to solve your problem is remove the cooler and check that for flow. also you can bypass the cooler and connect the two ends together.

also could be a bad turbo not flowing.




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