81 replies to this topic

[ozzimark]

Last night I noticed a weird noise when I turned the steering wheel as I drove home from calss... The little bushing down in the footwell has always made groaning noises, but this was something else, like a clunk with a subtle spring noise after it. Just finished up poking about, and found out that the lower ball joint on the driver's side endlink is bad, and makes a popping sound as the wheel turns, which resonated in the spring, and into the cabin.

So, time for some new endlinks. I'd have put this in maintenance, except I care about the performance of them, so it has to be an upgrade from the stock links.

I remember reading that Tom's adjustable endlinks go bad (seized threads or something worse?) after some time.
IPD is a safe option, but doesn't seem to be much of an upgrade over stock, and isn't adjustable.
QBM's are awesome, but expensive and out of stock everywhere.

Any alternatives or other suggestions?

[yangotang]

wouldn't recommend the Slater (QBM) endlinks... they were really noisy after dust got into the helm joints. not to mention that helm joints are really supposed to be used on 2DOF rotation systems anyhow, not where there is an additional 1DOF of axial movement.

[ozzimark]

they were really noisy after dust got into the helm joints.

Did you get them with the rubber boots too? If not, I can understand why they were really noisy. Robustness against the elements is a critical issue for me; I live in Rochester, and they dump obscene amounts of salt on the roads to keep things unfrozen

[volvotech97850]

Contact Lucky from IPD. He's mentioned taking over QBM's line and MAY be considering reproducing the heavy duty endlinks. If not, you can always ask him about IPD's endlinks.

[ozzimark]

I ruled out IPD's endlinks because they're not adjustable.. Though if IPD does end up making the QBM endlinks or some variation, that's a long wait for me to have to put up with a creaking noise every time I turn the wheel.

[yangotang]

Did you get them with the rubber boots too? If not, I can understand why they were really noisy. Robustness against the elements is a critical issue for me; I live in Rochester, and they dump obscene amounts of salt on the roads to keep things unfrozen

Nope. Was running the OBM V1 endlinks.

[ozzimark]

Hrm, guess I'll bug Lucky about some adjustable endlinks, or try to figure out how to make my own. The latter would definitely be entertaining

[matt b]

Tom's are fine. I've now put on 18K miles on them and they're fine. Don't overtighten them and they won't bother you.

And FWIW, I managed to get 250K miles on my stock ones on the NA and the car has been used and abused on mountain roads more times than I can remember. For $40/end link, it's not bad. The car has been lowered and running Bilstein HD's its entire life.

[ozzimark]

How much snow and salt do you get there in Kentucky?

And can you elaborate on "don't overtighten them"? What happens when you do?

At this point, I really just feel like undertaking a project to make my own. It'll be so much more satisfying

[matt b]

Car was a company car until last year, it has seen many, many a winters with salt, etc... It's a world of difference from my wagon which was a true south car until this past summer when we moved here. So I think the OEM stuff handles salt fairly well.

With the Tom endlinks, there are no torque specifications in the install instructions. So I have read posts from members on here saying they tightened until they couldn't turn them any further. It could have led to early failure.

If you feel up to it, they're fairly easy to make on your own. And I'm sure there'd be demand for a good product on VS.

[ozzimark]

Yes, OEM certainly lasts a long time... as they should, it's the OEM part. Mine finally took a dump at 155k after 11 years of use The issue with them and the IPD endlinks is the lack of length adjustment. I love having control over everything I can within reason, thus the need to make them myself. Current looking for possible parts.. the main issue is finding a rubber boot for them at this point.

[Ipd]

Are enough guys really running springs so low that factory length endlinks aren't sufficient? Otherwise I don't see the need for adjustment.

Help me out here...

As for QBM, we will not bring those endlinks back to market in the previous design. I may pursue a 'Track Spec' version done correctly to prevent noises but only if the demand is there, hence my question above.

[ozzimark]

My concern isn't bringing the swaybar to the original position, but be able to adjust the geometry of the swaybar/link interface to adjust the effective stiffness. I figure, why increase the bar stiffness if I can simply reduce the leverage on the bar by increasing the endlink length?

As an interesting side note, because the leverage on the bar decreases as you increase the endlink length, and lowering the car move the bar up, which is the same as shortening the end link, the swaybar is made less effective. Kinda counter-productive to the purposes of lowering your car from a handling standpoint, eh? This is exactly what I want to counter with adjustable links

[ozzimark]

Ok, I ordered some parts, hopefully they'll be here by the end of the week. I ended up settling on a design very similar to QBM's, and should be adjustable from 12.8" (a smidge longer than stock) to ~14", to compensate for the drop, and potentially add a little extra length for more firmness later. Ended up being about $130 for four links.. wanted some backup parts

Now I just gotta find some rubber boots.

[7 VII 7]

Tom's are fine. I've now put on 18K miles on them and they're fine. Don't overtighten them and they won't bother you.

And FWIW, I managed to get 250K miles on my stock ones on the NA and the car has been used and abused on mountain roads more times than I can remember. For $40/end link, it's not bad. The car has been lowered and running Bilstein HD's its entire life.

Tom is no longer making endlinks

I would and I am going with IPD HD endlinks... they are beefer and you really do not adjustable to be honest.

[ozzimark]

His website implies otherwise?
I don't need a lot of things. I want it Plus, if it ends up being cheaper for a set of four custom links than two HD links, I think the choice to me is clear

[7 VII 7]

His website implies otherwise?
I don't need a lot of things. I want it Plus, if it ends up being cheaper for a set of four custom links than two HD links, I think the choice to me is clear

he might have more in stock, but he is not MAKING them

[ozzimark]

Gotcha. And was it you or Adam that had a set of them that ended up going bad after a year?

[tomtbone]

My website is still up, but I have been laid off of where I work, I don't have any in stock. I am hoping to get hired back at some point in the next two months. As far as the seizing up of the adjustable threads go, I have found that once you have them adjusted, spray them with a rubberized undercoating. That will protect the steel from rusting. That is the best solution I have found. My buddy who actually uses these as, go figure, tie rod ends on his BMW, does this as well and it works.

Edited by tomtbone, 11 February 2009 - 03:58 PM.

[Jack8745]

whats that big deal about the ipd ones. they look stock with a sleved and/or thicker rod. i mean really is 10mm vs 12mm all the different ?
i need endlinks also and am considering making adjustable ones. On the flip side I dont like to adjust anything once its set so I was considering the ipd ones but need to know how much better they really are.