81 replies to this topic

[7 VII 7]

What is the stock length of our endlinks?

I am just going to buy BMW adjustable ones

[ozzimark]

I measured about 12" last night. The bolt hole diameter on my Konis are 1/2", and the length between the end of the bolt and the back of the ball joint is about 2"

It is all approximate anyway, since as soon as you lower your car, the links are no longer the "proper" length for the stock swaybar configuration.

Tom, the rubberized coating is actually an idea that crossed my mind, but while it prevents rust, it will also make it significantly more difficult to adjust the length. I guess once I'm happy with the length, I won't be trying to adjust it much. Anti-seize is also an option, but it'll probably need to be rebuilt every now and then to maintain the coating. My biggest concern is the joints themselves, not the threads.

[7 VII 7]

ok, so basically it is 12" from the top of the ball joint to the bottom of the ball joint or.... is it 12" from the bolt center to the other bolt center?

[Jack8745]

My website is still up, but I have been laid off of where I work, I don't have any in stock. I am hoping to get hired back at some point in the next two months. As far as the seizing up of the adjustable threads go, I have found that once you have them adjusted, spray them with a rubberized undercoating. That will protect the steel from rusting. That is the best solution I have found. My buddy who actually uses these as, go figure, tie rod ends on his BMW, does this as well and it works.

using heims as tre is really common offroad aplications

the whole boot thing seems very stange to me. i run heims on my long travel truck similar to this, they are made for abuse and dirt and i have 0 problems with noize etc



you can find high quality heims from
offraod-engineering.com

[7 VII 7]

I was looking at these

http://www.velocitymotorcars.com/adjustabl...e-roadster.html

[tomtbone]

Tom, the rubberized coating is actually an idea that crossed my mind, but while it prevents rust, it will also make it significantly more difficult to adjust the length. I guess once I'm happy with the length, I won't be trying to adjust it much. Anti-seize is also an option, but it'll probably need to be rebuilt every now and then to maintain the coating. My biggest concern is the joints themselves, not the threads.

I do see what you mean, but it is slightly flexible and say a year or two down the road if you want to adjust them you can. They won't be seized.

using heims as tre is really common offroad aplications

the whole boot thing seems very stange to me. i run heims on my long travel truck similar to this, they are made for abuse and dirt and i have 0 problems with noize etc

The heim joints have been universally found to fail especially in dirty/salty envioronments. Any dirt will get into the joint and grind away at it. It only took a few months for my QBM joints to develop looseness in the joint itself. Thats why i started making mine, but they have had a few growing pains which I believe have now been fully worked out. However, I can't make them right now. lol

One thing I can say, is that I have had not one complaint about the ball joint itself going bad and I have sold a lot of these.

Edited by tomtbone, 11 February 2009 - 04:36 PM.

[Jack8745]

The heim joints have been universally found to fail especially in dirty/salty envioronments. Any dirt will get into the joint and grind away at it. It only took a few months for my QBM joints to develop looseness in the joint itself. Thats why i started making mine, but they have had a few growing pains which I believe have now been fully worked out. However, I can't make them right now. lol

the heim joint im talking about dont have issues like this..
they are made for offroad racing

ie

i have similar set up for over 3 years now. i abuse my truck like you wouldnt belive and i have 0 issues. still strong

[Ipd]

My concern isn't bringing the swaybar to the original position, but be able to adjust the geometry of the swaybar/link interface to adjust the effective stiffness. I figure, why increase the bar stiffness if I can simply reduce the leverage on the bar by increasing the endlink length?

As an interesting side note, because the leverage on the bar decreases as you increase the endlink length, and lowering the car move the bar up, which is the same as shortening the end link, the swaybar is made less effective. Kinda counter-productive to the purposes of lowering your car from a handling standpoint, eh? This is exactly what I want to counter with adjustable links

I see, the adjustability is the change the angle of the bar moment end in relation to the strut. So the greater the angle the effectively shorter the moment arm and stiffer the bar.

Now while this logic is correct have you ever run the numbers on the actual difference in effective bar stiffness from adjusting the endlink?

When I calculate the leverage difference from horizontal to a 5 degree inclination the effective moment arm length is reduced by 0.094" and the difference in roll couple stiffness is less than 0.20%

I am suprised folks are able to appreciate such a small change.

[jnderr]

Get yourself a pair of these and make your own:

http://www.fcpgroton.com/product-exec/prod...category_id/173

[ozzimark]

Lucky, I have not done so. I was going to, but ended up working on a lab report instead. I have all the numbers written down for me to make a few quick calculations. The adjustable range I am looking will change the angle about 15º from it's current position though.

the whole boot thing seems very stange to me. i run heims on my long travel truck similar to this, they are made for abuse and dirt and i have 0 problems with noize etc

True, I contacted the company that I got my end links from about that, and the response was basically "we haven't heard of any reliability issues, but nobody gets back to us on how long they last in that environment", so we'll see. I was considering the boots as an additional line of defense.

[Mr. Norm]

In Chicago, I would get about 6 months from the OEM links, after three years, one of the IPD links showed a little wear, so IPD sent me a new pair under warranty. Much better than OEM in my experience.

[Chilled Man]

My website is still up, but I have been laid off of where I work, I don't have any in stock. I am hoping to get hired back at some point in the next two months. As far as the seizing up of the adjustable threads go, I have found that once you have them adjusted, spray them with a rubberized undercoating. That will protect the steel from rusting. That is the best solution I have found. My buddy who actually uses these as, go figure, tie rod ends on his BMW, does this as well and it works.

Is all I have to say the about the items you sell.


CUSOTMERSERVICE

I WOULD LIKE TO BUY JUST ONE FROM YOU.

not lookign for warrenty or anythign just want to buy one since I messed one up.

I like the product just buying stuff from you is a bit of a PIA

[tomtbone]

I WOULD LIKE TO BUY JUST ONE FROM YOU.

not lookign for warrenty or anythign just want to buy one since I messed one up.

I like the product just buying stuff from you is a bit of a PIA

dude, chill out. I haven't been able to make any. Do you think I want my job back? uh yeah. Things have been trimmed down at my my workplace over the last half year making it not as easy for me to just go and make the parts. Of course this is not an excuse for taking orders and taking a bit to ship out, but man take a chill pill.

[Chilled Man]

dude, chill out. I haven't been able to make any. Do you think I want my job back? uh yeah. Things have been trimmed down at my my workplace over the last half year making it not as easy for me to just go and make the parts. Of course this is not an excuse for taking orders and taking a bit to ship out, but man take a chill pill.

I have been bugging you for one for over 6 months now .............

[Yellow95]

I was looking at these

http://www.velocitymotorcars.com/adjustabl...e-roadster.html

Are you really going to pay $218+ for endlinks?

G

[shaun]

the heim joint im talking about dont have issues like this..
they are made for offroad racing

ie

i have similar set up for over 3 years now. i abuse my truck like you wouldnt belive and i have 0 issues. still strong

they change them all the time, just like lots of race parts. IMO open spherical joints blow on road cars unless you like to change them.

[7 VII 7]

Are you really going to pay $218+ for endlinks?

G

$109 for two cutie

[shaun]

I see, the adjustability is the change the angle of the bar moment end in relation to the strut. So the greater the angle the effectively shorter the moment arm and stiffer the bar.

Now while this logic is correct have you ever run the numbers on the actual difference in effective bar stiffness from adjusting the endlink?

When I calculate the leverage difference from horizontal to a 5 degree inclination the effective moment arm length is reduced by 0.094" and the difference in roll couple stiffness is less than 0.20%

I am suprised folks are able to appreciate such a small change.

FYO where they have a real application is circle track racing- stock cars, midgets, and the like. If one is always making left hand turns jacking the car's ride height and spring rate along the axle with the use of adjustable end linked sway bars is part of the set-up stagger. Take a look at a stock car at rest- it will be jacked up on the right side, and pulled down on the left side. - part of this is due to the use of adjustable links "pre-loading" along the torsional spring (sway bar) on each axle. stock cars will also usually end up with different spring rates on all corners, much softer on left side. You are right, it would take a vivid imagination to notice a change in spring rate of .2%. In order to use adjustable endlinks on a sway bar effectively they would end up at different lengths. in a road course car they would be used to fine tune a car due to uneven weight left to right along the length of the car to tune out some really subtle left to right difference. like tune ride height and spring rate for a really fat driver. it all gets pretty complicated when one adds what is happening to the rates of the coil springs that the sway bar is acting against, especially if they are adjustable rate, and it is all influenced by the geometry of the given suspension design and set-up. but changing the length of the links in unison accomplishes at most in this case .2% (nothing) and is in fact pretty funny.

[7 VII 7]

All I know is when I put the thicker endlinks on I could take the turn from 270 to 495 south at 70mph before... not so much

[ErikS]

$109 for two cutie

You need one for each side.