1516 replies to this topic

[scandalo]

I'm surprised you didn't get a higher torque number. Next question is when are you gonna take the new tune out!

[JCviggen]

lookforjoe, on 27 September 2009 - 02:31 AM, said:

Finished up too late to check out the new tune, but with the ECU & 625cc injectors the AFR's are 11.9 @ idle- waay to rich! Tomorrow I'll have to look it over...

Give it time to learn, it should idle and cruise at 14.7 then, only question is after learning what's the WOT AFR

[RZT5]

is there any benefit in terms of oil flow or oil pressure from doing this mod?

[lookforjoe]

JCviggen, on 27 September 2009 - 06:15 PM, said:

Give it time to learn, it should idle and cruise at 14.7 then, only question is after learning what's the WOT AFR

EDIT: DO NOT USE SIEMENS or RC INJECTORS with ME4.4 & TT!!!!! Only Bosch Injectors will calibrate correctly!!!!!

I had to lower the FP - I still had it set for the 468cc greens (3.8bar). Lowered to 3bar, but it's still too rich. When I start the car, it goes to 14.7, then falters & gradually richens until it settles around 11.9 -12.3 (!) once warm.

I rechecked the listing on the Siemens Deka IV injectors, and it seems they are actually over 60lb/625cc - the listing says 646cc static flow rate @ 3bar. So, I'll try lowering the FP to 40psi/2.75bar & see if that helps. I'll LYK the WOT AFR's when I feel comfortable that the AFR's are stable at baseline.

RZT5, on 27 September 2009 - 07:36 PM, said:

is there any benefit in terms of oil flow or oil pressure from doing this mod?

I don't see how. The only real advantage I see is the compact design & elimination of the oil cooler t/stat housing & lines that all leak over time.. and the wider choices available in terms of radiators now that no internal oil coolers are needed.

[JCviggen]

lookforjoe, on 28 September 2009 - 01:06 PM, said:

I had to lower the FP - I still had it set for the 468cc greens (3.8bar). Lowered to 3bar, but it's still too rich. When I start the car, it goes to 14.7, then falters & gradually richens until it settles around 11.9 -12.3 (!) once warm.

Regardless of how much too big the injectors are or how much fuel is programmed after driving it for a bit it should settle at 14.7. That's what the front O2 sensor is for..you can stick 750cc's on a stock map and it should cruise at stoich. Would throw a CEL to let you know it has to compensate too much though.

[flyfishing3]

so Jan redid the tune?

i thought you had his highest tune already?

[EricF]

flyfishing3, on 28 September 2009 - 06:40 PM, said:

so Jan redid the tune?

i thought you had his highest tune already?

Jan has many tunes for quite a number of hardware setups. Every time I ask him if he has something close to what I have, he comes up with a new one that's pretty close. Hopefully Hussein gets some more satisfaction with this one

[lookforjoe]

JCviggen, on 28 September 2009 - 06:19 PM, said:

Regardless of how much too big the injectors are or how much fuel is programmed after driving it for a bit it should settle at 14.7. That's what the front O2 sensor is for..you can stick 750cc's on a stock map and it should cruise at stoich. Would throw a CEL to let you know it has to compensate too much though.

Not my experience. Putting in injectors that are far enough outside the operating window, it cannot compensate & bring the AFR back.

I did get a CEL early on in the day - but that was 0171 - lean condition!

Set the fuel pressure to 40psi. Pulled the intake pipe, checked for vacuum leaks, swapped the MAF, blah, blah, no change.

I replaced the front O2 today - I wasn't sure about the old one - it seemed fine (with the old tune), but is was whacked by the exploding Bevel Gear pinion, so I figured better safe than sorry. It made no difference.

I pulled the NGK plugs, and #3 was fouled. Did a compression test, uniform compression. Put back the Volvo plugs gapped @ .030". Put back the Volvo wires instead of the IPD. Still erratic, but not consistantly so.

I drove around awhile, and it seemed to be settling out to around 14.7-15.2. Did a quick highway run, seemed OK. Got home, and checked under the hood - moved rotated the injectors a touch & almost immediately it started running like crap.

So, I have to check the injector seals & seat. Do you recall whether you seated the injector in the rail at the first slot on the injector, or the 2nd?



I'm wondering if I have a leak around the injector in the manifold, either that, or the electrical connectors are flaky; (the ones I bought came with the bosch adaptor plug, says Ford racing on it) & moving the injector was affecting the connector contacts. It's raining now, so I'll have to check all that tomorrow.

In the midst of all this, the small 6842190 elbow hose to the turbo coolant line ruptured, so I had to fix that as well.

Youtube Vid this afternoon/ early evening No boost in first segment, just looking @ AFR's - mid segment I took it up to 20psi - tricky when you're holding the camera 7 driving @ the same time

EricF, on 28 September 2009 - 07:22 PM, said:

Jan has many tunes for quite a number of hardware setups. Every time I ask him if he has something close to what I have, he comes up with a new one that's pretty close. Hopefully Hussein gets some more satisfaction with this one

He went back to Volvo & tweaked my tune to allow richer AFR's (esp. over 4500rpm & higher boost

[Johann]

My former S70 had DEKA 630's installed, 2003 T5 engine and K24 turbo, and ME7 wasn't very happy with them. Lots of irregularities and weird idle. Even when AFR's were spot on the engine never ran smooth like is does with the Bosch injectors. Could be spray pattern but also the resistance was suspect. Although high ipm I believe they run somewhat lower resistance compared to Bosch injectors.

[JCviggen]

My deka 630's are running as expected, no weirdness to be reported. I don't quite remember how I mounted them, just the usual way I guess

ME 4.3 seems to have no limit when it comes to fuel compensation. Could be different with your car and the newer EMS.

[lookforjoe]

Johann, on 29 September 2009 - 08:24 AM, said:

My former S70 had DEKA 630's installed, 2003 T5 engine and K24 turbo, and ME7 wasn't very happy with them. Lots of irregularities and weird idle. Even when AFR's were spot on the engine never ran smooth like is does with the Bosch injectors. Could be spray pattern but also the resistance was suspect. Although high ipm I believe they run somewhat lower resistance compared to Bosch injectors.

hmmm.... I'll have to check the resistance on each, then. I need to pull the rail, since it does seem that moving the injectors/connectors affects the idle/AFR's, which of course it shouldn't.

JCviggen, on 29 September 2009 - 10:33 AM, said:

My deka 630's are running as expected, no weirdness to be reported. I don't quite remember how I mounted them, just the usual way I guess

ME 4.3 seems to have no limit when it comes to fuel compensation. Could be different with your car and the newer EMS.

I thought I had them mounted the only way possible, but I have to check, since this seems to be the issue, unless it is just coincidence.

Keep me in mnid for your fuel map, I'm still getting TT

I've bookmarked your showroom thread, have to take a read later

[64pvolvo1800]

lookforjoe, on 29 September 2009 - 12:28 AM, said:

Not my experience. Putting in injectors that are far enough outside the operating window, it cannot compensate & bring the AFR back.

I did get a CEL early on in the day - but that was 0171 - lean condition!

Set the fuel pressure to 40psi. Pulled the intake pipe, checked for vacuum leaks, swapped the MAF, blah, blah, no change.

I replaced the front O2 today - I wasn't sure about the old one - it seemed fine (with the old tune), but is was whacked by the exploding Bevel Gear pinion, so I figured better safe than sorry. It made no difference.

I pulled the NGK plugs, and #3 was fouled. Did a compression test, uniform compression. Put back the Volvo plugs gapped @ .030". Put back the Volvo wires instead of the IPD. Still erratic, but not consistantly so.

I drove around awhile, and it seemed to be settling out to around 14.7-15.2. Did a quick highway run, seemed OK. Got home, and checked under the hood - moved rotated the injectors a touch & almost immediately it started running like crap.

So, I have to check the injector seals & seat. Do you recall whether you seated the injector in the rail at the first slot on the injector, or the 2nd?



I'm wondering if I have a leak around the injector in the manifold, either that, or the electrical connectors are flaky; (the ones I bought came with the bosch adaptor plug, says Ford racing on it) & moving the injector was affecting the connector contacts. It's raining now, so I'll have to check all that tomorrow.

In the midst of all this, the small 6842190 elbow hose to the turbo coolant line ruptured, so I had to fix that as well.

Youtube Vid this afternoon/ early evening No boost in first segment, just looking @ AFR's - mid segment I took it up to 20psi - tricky when you're holding the camera 7 driving @ the same time




He went back to Volvo & tweaked my tune to allow richer AFR's (esp. over 4500rpm & higher boost

My injector/keeper latched into the groove nearest the oring on the rail end.

[BlackT5]

Your Dekas don't have bosch connectors?

[lookforjoe]

BlackT5, on 29 September 2009 - 02:14 PM, said:

Your Dekas don't have bosch connectors?

No. That's what I believed I was ordering - but that's not what arrived. I've had them on the shelf since May, so not much I can do about it now. I hate the additional connection, it's just asking for trouble...

64pvolvo1800, on 29 September 2009 - 01:56 PM, said:

My injector/keeper latched into the groove nearest the oring on the rail end.

That's where I expected them to go, and where I put them.

[EricF]

lookforjoe, on 29 September 2009 - 03:02 PM, said:

No. That's what I believed I was ordering - but that's not what arrived. I've had them on the shelf since May, so not much I can do about it now. I hate the additional connection, it's just asking for trouble...

I would eliminate that extra connection. Cut, solder, heat shrink, done. No sense in allowing an extra point of failure like that. Plus it will look cleaner

Also, your AFRs look great in that video! I would really like to see a full gear pull in third or fourth at WOT. Do you have the AEM set up to datalog?

[Korruption]

Sir... thank you for the video. Your car sounds so smooth. Great video!!

*jealous

[lookforjoe]

EricF, on 29 September 2009 - 03:21 PM, said:

I would eliminate that extra connection. Cut, solder, heat shrink, done. No sense in allowing an extra point of failure like that. Plus it will look cleaner

Also, your AFRs look great in that video! I would really like to see a full gear pull in third or fourth at WOT. Do you have the AEM set up to datalog?

Yeah, I think that's next - as long as the injectors are good - I don't want to have to redo it..

Yes, except for idle/off idle the AFR's are good - cruising part throttle I get 14-15's. Just not sure why it's loading up @ idle.

I need to get my son to shoot video. I did that one-handed. You don't want to see the one where I stomped on it - nearly went off the road from the torque steer with only one hand on the wheel.

If it looks good, I'll raise the boost past 20psi - still got a ways to go on that end

I don't have the AEM datalogging. I need to buy the connector mentioned in the instructions & I don't usually touch PC's - but that needs to change anyway, since I have TT coming real soon!

[lookforjoe]

So, having gone nuts checking every goddamn thing under the hood that could conceivably impact this, I put the Greens back in, raised the Base Fuel Pressure to 5bar(!) to get the AFR's down to 14.7 @ idle (lower than that, the AFR's went right off the lean end). Now, idle is good, no loading up, no erratic running, no massive soot clouds on decel.

So, after all that, the new injectors (or injector - one cyl was fouling) are not flowing evenly at closed throttle/part throttle.

Now, I have to see if the vendor will help me out on this.

Anyone got a spare set of 625cc's I can try?

[maciekb2002]

I have 3 spares , I run those thinks on my tune form rica for gt3071r , did 304 and later 290 whp, car was way to rich , now I am running greens , siemens were too big for new tune ,I was running 2 step at 3500 RPMS with flames out of exhaust .
email me maciekb2002@yahoo.com
Let me know if you want to come pick it up or I will just send it to you

[lookforjoe]

maciekb2002, on 01 October 2009 - 12:49 AM, said:

I have 3 spares , I run those thinks on my tune form rica for gt3071r , did 304 and later 290 whp, car was way to rich , now I am running greens , siemens were too big for new tune ,I was running 2 step at 3500 RPMS with flames out of exhaust .
email me maciekb2002@yahoo.com
Let me know if you want to come pick it up or I will just send it to you

I sent you an email, thanks!