65 replies to this topic

[Korruption]

gilber33, on 27 October 2009 - 08:17 PM, said:

10 years ago what? Are you telling me they upgraded to the standard two button mice?

LoL. Yes. O.S. X 10.0 (the beta) first debuted standard support. The mouse itself was standardized a few years after 2000.

Granted, you're going to tell me you don't see two buttons, but trust me, they are there. The ball in the middle is a 360 degree scroll ball.

[gilber33]

I'll take your word for it, but I still think it looks silly.


Proves how often I use macs. Never.

[shanehutton]

I have been using a 2 button mouse on a mac for as long as I can remember.

Might I ask what version of the Mac OS you are familiar with? OSX is WORLDS better than any version of windows up to 7. I haven't used 7 yet so I won't speak about what I don't know. From what I have seen so far, however, it appears like most of the "new" features in 7 have been on my computer for quite some time

[gilber33]

shanehutton, on 28 October 2009 - 12:12 AM, said:

I have been using a 2 button mouse on a mac for as long as I can remember.

Might I ask what version of the Mac OS you are familiar with? OSX is WORLDS better than any version of windows up to 7. I haven't used 7 yet so I won't speak about what I don't know. From what I have seen so far, however, it appears like most of the "new" features in 7 have been on my computer for quite some time

Whatever version was in my schools. Now granted that I haven't thoroughly used a mac recently, I've done simple tasks on them and just didn't like them as much as my PC. I have Windows Vista and I haven't had any problems with it, I really like it. And I am going to be getting Windows 7, so we'll see how that stacks up. If your a student with a valid university email address, you can get Windows 7 for 30 bucks.

[TurboS60]

I use a Mac at school and a PC at home. I prefer using the PC but whatever works for you.

[Bah]

Korruption, on 25 October 2009 - 02:46 PM, said:

I believe each system serves a purpose. Also, each is a very different experience. While I will give you that Apple charges too much for their hardware, their software is worth every penny. The OS has been pretty well polished, and is extremely efficient on many different systems. The installation of the Mac OS vs Windows is night and day. All drivers are preloaded. One install... you're done. No seperate USB, ethernet, wireless, video, cd/dvd drivers needed.

Being somewhat of a nerd (quite a bit, actually) the *NIX platform is where it's at. This simple change Apple made to a pre-existing standard (Darwin, BSD) in 2000 was the best move they could have ever made. It's what made the Mac what it is today. I've been working on them since O.S. 7.6.1-9.2.2, which wasn't UNIX based, and that stuff sucked.

It is appealing to many of my clients who switch to not have to deal with windows viruses anymore. That alone is a huge reason why I feel Microsoft is archaic.

Again, not trying to pee on each other's fires here, just giving my .02. All opinions respected.

I agree on this. People forget Mac's are Unix based, and you can run shells out of them etc lol...but i'd prefer to run ubuntu,knoppix, gentoo, redhat, any of the sort.

As for the drivers bit...Yea i mean your right on it, but, think about it. If windows constructed computers, then theyd have the positive. Windows is just an operating system, whereas Mac is OS + hardware. Windows is designed moreso so that ANYONE can jump into the game (in terms of hardware) and make something. The # of manufacturers of windows machines? 100's.
# of manufacturers for mac OS machines? 1? maybe 2 lol...

I mean, i agree whole heartedly its whatever you feel most comfortable with, but like your syaing with the viruses and everything, if the user is...well for lack of a better word, computer- illeterate and can't deal with the issues, then so be it.

Doesn't exclude macs...i'm sure you know about how easy it is to hack Mac's =p Virus wise i havent experienced a problem...really comes down to who sets up your PC. I view it as: Anyman can set up a Mac machine. Properly Setting up a windows machine requires more.

Its a give and get....the more time and effort you put into something, generally the better return. Not hating on anyone, but, again, my beef is with those who make claims Macs are superior. + Windows 7 is actually quite good, but Mac's commercials are pretty weak lol...

When i beta-tested xp(whistler) i was extremely skeptical..i was used to 2000, where things were easy. XP brought windows to a point where i have no issue with them. Vista no thanks, i'll go with 7 though.

doing CE, its windows and linux for me. Use a mac only if required to do so, but hah. I used to run xp on a p200 with 128mb of ram....its all about customization

Just like your volvo..without maintenance and proper setup with good components, things break. Or you can buy the civic which won't mind as much the lackthereof.
lolol and i didn't just say that if you like Macs you like Civics...plz dont kill me


Sorry..ramblin on =p

[Korruption]

Bah, on 28 October 2009 - 06:27 PM, said:

I agree on this. People forget Mac's are Unix based, and you can run shells out of them etc lol...but i'd prefer to run ubuntu,knoppix, gentoo, redhat, any of the sort.

As for the drivers bit...Yea i mean your right on it, but, think about it. If windows constructed computers, then theyd have the positive. Windows is just an operating system, whereas Mac is OS + hardware. Windows is designed moreso so that ANYONE can jump into the game (in terms of hardware) and make something. The # of manufacturers of windows machines? 100's.
# of manufacturers for mac OS machines? 1? maybe 2 lol...

I mean, i agree whole heartedly its whatever you feel most comfortable with, but like your syaing with the viruses and everything, if the user is...well for lack of a better word, computer- illeterate and can't deal with the issues, then so be it.

Doesn't exclude macs...i'm sure you know about how easy it is to hack Mac's =p Virus wise i havent experienced a problem...really comes down to who sets up your PC. I view it as: Anyman can set up a Mac machine. Properly Setting up a windows machine requires more.

Its a give and get....the more time and effort you put into something, generally the better return. Not hating on anyone, but, again, my beef is with those who make claims Macs are superior. + Windows 7 is actually quite good, but Mac's commercials are pretty weak lol...

When i beta-tested xp(whistler) i was extremely skeptical..i was used to 2000, where things were easy. XP brought windows to a point where i have no issue with them. Vista no thanks, i'll go with 7 though.

doing CE, its windows and linux for me. Use a mac only if required to do so, but hah. I used to run xp on a p200 with 128mb of ram....its all about customization

Just like your volvo..without maintenance and proper setup with good components, things break. Or you can buy the civic which won't mind as much the lackthereof.
lolol and i didn't just say that if you like Macs you like Civics...plz dont kill me


Sorry..ramblin on =p

On no you didn't!! lol

I hope that Windows 7 is an improvement, as I am not too fond of Vista. I still install XP for my clients if I can.

Windows 7, you have to admit, looks a great great deal like the Mac OS now.

I think each platform has it's place. I also think the UK mac commercials are funnier, for some reason.

One more thing... the Mac OS does have a difference from Windows in a sense each version has run seemingly better on existing hardware, which is opposite of Windows. They just released their last OS with is 50% smaller in size than the predecessor, with the same functionality and full 64 bit support. 11GB vs 6GB. FWIW

[johnloves850's]

Bah, on 24 October 2009 - 04:03 PM, said:

Which, makes the whole argument about them being superior movie editing machines, moot. Same chipset, only thing different at this point is the OS. Which equates to you paying 1000$ more for the OS.

Where did you quote this from?
My computer was $1400 - 300 gig internal, 4 gig ram, among other things, oh and macs use DDR3
OS is a superior system in my opinion.
I have never been happy using Windows, I think it is very archaic and it does not perform well whatsoever.

gilber33, on 27 October 2009 - 08:17 PM, said:

10 years ago what? Are you telling me they upgraded to the standard two button mice?

You can use either or...
I use the single button because when I do video editing I already have one hand on the keyboard.
Control-click, same function as a right click.
I have a two button mouse but I like the mighty mouse much more.
Also, when you X out of a program, you do not quit, which is an awesome function.

[Bah]

johnloves850, on 03 November 2009 - 02:56 PM, said:

Where did you quote this from?
My computer was $1400 - 300 gig internal, 4 gig ram, among other things, oh and macs use DDR3
OS is a superior system in my opinion.
I have never been happy using Windows, I think it is very archaic and it does not perform well whatsoever.

Uhmm if thats the redeeming part of the computer your arguement is ruined LOL

300 gig internal - Uhm..back in 2000 when i built my computer, 40 GB were 90$ for a good maxtor. When i bought a 250GB 2.5 years ago, it was like 90$ ...
Newegg has 4gig sticks of DDR3 around 100$(some less)
CPU? Well we've established they use Intel now...
Motherboards? thats one super expensive Mobo betcha its got an intel chipset to boot =)


Video card? please....unless they are packing them with TOL brand new DUAL SLI-ed Geforces, i wouldnt even think it. Not to mention, no D3D in Mac's, so your using OpenGL...dont know how far OGL has gone in the past 3 years, but, majority of games still rely on D3D and most all VC's get maximum performance from it.


And performance wise? Linux was never designed for 3d gaming... DirectX is a windows thing...So if your talking about CPU processing, then yea...Mac might have a bit of an un upper hand with the OS, as would linux or anything else. Linux has also been able to operate 64 bit vs Windows just finally got to it. Windows fault for sure there.

Audio processing is not going to be that affected between OS'es, as the APU is pretty much unaffected...

So i'm not seeing the price gap too well.....Your paying for the OS and their name alot more then your paying for windoze.

You can call it archaic all you want, thats fine and dandy. Once you start talking about its performance, its moot.

[johnloves850's]

Bah, on 04 November 2009 - 07:00 AM, said:

So i'm not seeing the price gap too well.....Your paying for the OS and their name alot more then your paying for windoze.

I'm paying for a computer that I plug in, which comes straight out of the box, with no hassle, and incorporates a video and audio processor which works flawlessly and seamlessly.
If you were getting a computer for surfing volvospeed and ebay, get a pc.
And honestly, I can't tell you how many times that I have seen someone posting that some things are not properly formatted for their internet explorer, but if you ask anyone using safari, they will tell you everything works fine.
If you are actually doing something other than using programs with text based elements (MS office - word, powerpoint), like video or audio editing, get a mac.

You seem to know about the aspects of building a computer, but what is the main use of your computer?
Most people do not build computers, including the OP (I assume).
Also, including myself.
I do not have time to do any tinkering on my computer between school/work/girlfriend/family/free-lancing.
So for me, Apple has their metaphorical "shit" together.



I thought this was funny lol.

[OniFactor]

1 and 2 button mice? Eff that.


6 clickables. w00t.

[Korruption]

Bah, on 04 November 2009 - 07:00 AM, said:

You can call it archaic all you want, thats fine and dandy. Once you start talking about its performance, its moot.

My only real gripe with windoze is that, in my opinion, it's not very efficient in terms of hardware. I agree with you that there are many more high end video game options and whatnot... but when it comes to backwards compatibility on existing hardware... I.E. installing either OS on old computers... the Mac OS is functional WAY further back. This keeps machines useable for longer periods of time. Also, I recognize the term "Useable" is going to be different for each person and their computing needs.

Granted, the windows platform is more plagued with anti-virus BS eating up resources than viruses themselves sometimes, and that's not Microsoft's fault.

OniFactor, on 05 November 2009 - 06:39 AM, said:

1 and 2 button mice? Eff that.
6 clickables. w00t.

The one button mouse, from Apple, was built with using your opposite hand on the keyboard in mind. As johnloves850's, stated, the Mac is more hot key oriented. It's a matter of preference, really... as I prefer to do 90% of my computing without a mouse/trackpad if I can do so. I'm a keyboard nerd, through and through. However, there are many users, if not most (who seemingly aren't us) rely on a two button mouse to do most of their computing. That is restrictive.

So here's Apple's latest oddity. I haven't used it personally yet, but the idea is interesting. It's a touch everywhere mouse.

SCA-ROO BUTT ONZ!!!

[OniFactor]

i use keyboard shortcuts and multiple buttons for photo editing. i've also got a tablet, as well, for the really tricky stuff. that's a bit more of a PITA for me, because i'm left handed, though.. can't really use keyboard shortcuts with your left hand, when you're holding a tablet pen in it..

[Быстров]

[Korruption]

OniFactor, on 05 November 2009 - 03:39 PM, said:

i use keyboard shortcuts and multiple buttons for photo editing. i've also got a tablet, as well, for the really tricky stuff. that's a bit more of a PITA for me, because i'm left handed, though.. can't really use keyboard shortcuts with your left hand, when you're holding a tablet pen in it..

That's a very good point, Oni. I've never thought about how comfortable that isn't. lol Sorry!!

[Bah]

Korruption, on 05 November 2009 - 03:02 PM, said:

My only real gripe with windoze is that, in my opinion, it's not very efficient in terms of hardware. I agree with you that there are many more high end video game options and whatnot... but when it comes to backwards compatibility on existing hardware... I.E. installing either OS on old computers... the Mac OS is functional WAY further back. This keeps machines useable for longer periods of time. Also, I recognize the term "Useable" is going to be different for each person and their computing needs.

Granted, the windows platform is more plagued with anti-virus BS eating up resources than viruses themselves sometimes, and that's not Microsoft's fault.

lol true on the viruses...owner has to be smarter then them

But as for the hardware backwards compatibility..in what sense?
XP uses generic video drivers just in the same method as Mac...i have hooked up my ATI rage furyII w/ 4mb of ram and ran in xp just fine, used old arse soundblaster from the 90's....Thats what set XP apart from the rest, the fact the generic drivers actually worked....

Now if your saying Mac has better generic driver compatibility...well you might be right on that..i've never really had the opportunity or desire to throw mac on the 486...
I'm just curious what functionality its lacking..i mean if mac OS still works with the old green screener, then kudos...itd run so slow though =p

I admit in a live linux for the most part everythings functional..but ive used Barts PE and made my own live windows before, no issues either.

Now with windows 7 not letting you take stuff from XP, i can see how some people might dislike it, but, this isnt going from 98 to 98SE...it's going from xp to 7 lol...no haters there, but, fresh starts are always the best for a windoze setup.

But microsoft can't be held accountable because ATI drivers suck(for the most part) of the fact that people like to buy things that conflict hardware wise (yeaa back in the day this was a problem with IRQ settings and whatnot)

I just don't see it...The only thing from the arguement i can take away is that microsoft needs to improve its generic drivers a bit more...but like i said...ATI rage Pro 2's...S3 Virges...heck ive even put my voodoo2's in and it sorta worked LOL...then again no one uses GLIDE anymore.

My point is just that the hatred for windoze, is filled with incorrectness and bias. People love to say Windows can't do what Mac OS does. But in fact, it can. Can it do it better? Depends on what aspect...you can't say Mac OS is a performance Queen, when a benchmark shows otherwise, and you can't say Windoze stinks out loud, because you installed it and got a virus within 10 minutes =p STOP LOOKING AT PORN (or just spend 1 hour after installation and never have to worry again with it....and oh yes, i watch and go to some crazy F@#@!# up stuff =p)

Not trying to piss in anyones fruit loops of course, and if you wanna know my gripe with windows, its been its resource hogfullness. Its why ive stuck with XP, i have yet to own a computer that i felt would be comfortable on vista because im still using original centrino laptop(T42 ftw!) and a AMD Athlon 1.3ghz. 1 gig of ram is super crazy for XP...Vista itd be terrible i imagine. But, now that people have 4 gigs of ram in their computers, the fact that windows 7 will use on average 1 gig of that, leaves you 3 gigs of ram. turn down your pagefile, and enjoy the increased performance.

As for the hate on IE, IE8 seems to work a'ok for me, but i can run firefox or opera or safari in windows, soooo idk about that.

And, audio editing and video editing exist in windows. i've used fruity loops and acid with no issues or gripes. Increase the buffer size a bit and your A'ok. 3d video rendering is no biggie with windows...

And i agree 90% that if you are buying a computer to come out of the box and be perfect to use a mac is for you. But, the reasoning is because there is 0 worthwhile computer manufacturers out there. Even this laptop im using, i have to have IBMs crapola loaded onto it, which just eats up the resources. I could run with out their stuff, and have same functionality, just wouldnt be as pretty when i press the volume up button i get green lights =p...which is how itd be in Mac OS.
Desktop wise, you can always make something far superior to anything apple can create, both performance wise, and since you don't need all the crapola drivers that are forced upon you for brand specific things, resource wise.
Laptops...well...i would never buy an apple laptop, but i agree. they got their stuff together on them...all beit pricey, its on the same build quality as my IBM T42...which means alot if you know what IBM was like before Lenovo took over.
Even if i put Mac OS on these 500-600$ laptops, it wont change anything. They are built with cheap components and poorly designed...i took apart this laptop and was surprised to see how well they actually engineering the T4x's....and brand new back in the day it was on price par with the apples of Today.

But enough with ranting...this can go on forever lmfao =)


This could all be settled if we used Linux though hehe

[Korruption]

Bah, on 05 November 2009 - 04:00 PM, said:

lol true on the viruses...owner has to be smarter then them

But as for the hardware backwards compatibility..in what sense?
XP uses generic video drivers just in the same method as Mac...i have hooked up my ATI rage furyII w/ 4mb of ram and ran in xp just fine, used old arse soundblaster from the 90's....Thats what set XP apart from the rest, the fact the generic drivers actually worked....

Now if your saying Mac has better generic driver compatibility...well you might be right on that..i've never really had the opportunity or desire to throw mac on the 486...
I'm just curious what functionality its lacking..i mean if mac OS still works with the old green screener, then kudos...itd run so slow though =p

I admit in a live linux for the most part everythings functional..but ive used Barts PE and made my own live windows before, no issues either.

Now with windows 7 not letting you take stuff from XP, i can see how some people might dislike it, but, this isnt going from 98 to 98SE...it's going from xp to 7 lol...no haters there, but, fresh starts are always the best for a windoze setup.

But microsoft can't be held accountable because ATI drivers suck(for the most part) of the fact that people like to buy things that conflict hardware wise (yeaa back in the day this was a problem with IRQ settings and whatnot)

I just don't see it...The only thing from the arguement i can take away is that microsoft needs to improve its generic drivers a bit more...but like i said...ATI rage Pro 2's...S3 Virges...heck ive even put my voodoo2's in and it sorta worked LOL...then again no one uses GLIDE anymore.

My point is just that the hatred for windoze, is filled with incorrectness and bias. People love to say Windows can't do what Mac OS does. But in fact, it can. Can it do it better? Depends on what aspect...you can't say Mac OS is a performance Queen, when a benchmark shows otherwise, and you can't say Windoze stinks out loud, because you installed it and got a virus within 10 minutes =p STOP LOOKING AT PORN (or just spend 1 hour after installation and never have to worry again with it....and oh yes, i watch and go to some crazy F@#@!# up stuff =p)

Not trying to piss in anyones fruit loops of course, and if you wanna know my gripe with windows, its been its resource hogfullness. Its why ive stuck with XP, i have yet to own a computer that i felt would be comfortable on vista because im still using original centrino laptop(T42 ftw!) and a AMD Athlon 1.3ghz. 1 gig of ram is super crazy for XP...Vista itd be terrible i imagine. But, now that people have 4 gigs of ram in their computers, the fact that windows 7 will use on average 1 gig of that, leaves you 3 gigs of ram. turn down your pagefile, and enjoy the increased performance.

As for the hate on IE, IE8 seems to work a'ok for me, but i can run firefox or opera or safari in windows, soooo idk about that.

And, audio editing and video editing exist in windows. i've used fruity loops and acid with no issues or gripes. Increase the buffer size a bit and your A'ok. 3d video rendering is no biggie with windows...

And i agree 90% that if you are buying a computer to come out of the box and be perfect to use a mac is for you. But, the reasoning is because there is 0 worthwhile computer manufacturers out there. Even this laptop im using, i have to have IBMs crapola loaded onto it, which just eats up the resources. I could run with out their stuff, and have same functionality, just wouldnt be as pretty when i press the volume up button i get green lights =p...which is how itd be in Mac OS.
Desktop wise, you can always make something far superior to anything apple can create, both performance wise, and since you don't need all the crapola drivers that are forced upon you for brand specific things, resource wise.
Laptops...well...i would never buy an apple laptop, but i agree. they got their stuff together on them...all beit pricey, its on the same build quality as my IBM T42...which means alot if you know what IBM was like before Lenovo took over.
Even if i put Mac OS on these 500-600$ laptops, it wont change anything. They are built with cheap components and poorly designed...i took apart this laptop and was surprised to see how well they actually engineering the T4x's....and brand new back in the day it was on price par with the apples of Today.

But enough with ranting...this can go on forever lmfao =)


This could all be settled if we used Linux though hehe

Fuck it... I'm giving you +1 for writing a book. lol

First, I hope you know I do not hate PC's and/or windows. I own Macs, as do most of my clients, but I do run hybrid networks and whatnot.

As for the Mac OS using "generic video drivers," that simply is not the case. Since apple "controls" all their hardware, they send along all drivers streamlined with the OS. It installs the correct support upon hardware detection.

Completely agree that a fresh start is usually a good thing. The people who hold onto their 95/98 systems with dear life, they get what's coming to them, no doubt. Same with my Mac OS 9 people. They can hold out for whatever reason, but the end result is computing punishment when your files are stuck in the past. lol

It needs to be known that when you talk about Windows, we are talking about 3 versions here. XP, Vista, and 7. In regards to the Mac OS, since 2000 there has been 10.0 (beta), 10.1, 10.2 (Jaguar), 10.3 (Panther, 10.4 (Tiger), 10.5 (Leopard), and this past August, 10.6 (Snow Leopard). These have all been full version re-ramps of the whole O.S. I know... I know... the cat names are silly... I agree. I really wish they'd knock it off.

In the time Windows has release 3 operating systems, Apple has technically released 7. Each running better on existing Apple hardware than the previous. Again, this is restrictive to Apple hardware, that I concede.

I do not know of the hate you've experienced for IE. I bounce between different browsers on the Mac platform too... it's a matter of what isn't having issues since it's last update. Safari/Firefox/ IE, they all have their quirks.

Mainly, I think people find the Mac OS generally more intuitive. The problem I've seen with this is Apple is targeting simple users more and more, to the point it make me worried about their end goal. I do not want to see "Buy a Mac, even with your lobotomy, it'll all be ok" commercials anytime soon.

Here's my last comment... ... .... I have Windows on my Mac. I rarely use it... but it's in a program called Parallels, which will allow me to open a number of OSs available. I just find it ironic that I use Windows in a virtual windowed mode.

[gilber33]

Быстров, on 05 November 2009 - 03:41 PM, said:

[Austin H]

Bah, on 05 November 2009 - 04:00 PM, said:

And, audio editing and video editing exist in windows. i've used fruity loops and acid with no issues or gripes. Increase the buffer size a bit and your A'ok. 3d video rendering is no biggie with windows...




Desktop wise, you can always make something far superior to anything apple can create, both performance wise, and since you don't need all the crapola drivers that are forced upon you for brand specific things, resource wise.

Very true. When recording we generally have 3 or 4 Mac Pro's running simultaneously for when one crashes. PC's we usually have two and most of the time we never have a problem. You can build a far greater PC than what you can buy in a Mac.


If you don't have the time to do so then buy a Mac. Both will get the job done.

[z31jaime]

i like both. i have 5 computers in my house. built all but the mac.

pc #1

windows xp pro with custom themes.
msi k9n diamond edition mobo
Nvida 9800 gts sli video cards
amd 2.6 dual core processor.
4 gigs of ram.

pc #2 (girlfriends set up)
windows xp pro/dual boot with windows 7 RC
2 gigs of ram
Intel dual core
2 gigs of ram.

pc#3
BIG POS system used to watch movies in my living room.
xp and Linux dual boot.
1 gig of ram
amd processor (probably about the same as a P4)

#4 web book.
acer aspire 1 (10")
upgraded to 2 gigs of ram.
1.6 atom processor.

#5 mac
G4 dual processor (1.25 ghz)
2 gigs of ram
ati radon 9000 graphics card
Jaguar
was using it to learn Ruby on Rails and been so busy haven't used it in months. its stuck in the corner of computers i have to fix. i need to find a place to connect it up to.


i do use Microshaft more because its what i have been using for years. but i have found Mac to be very.......i guess i would say..........fun. its so different i like it. lol.