79 replies to this topic

[BlackT5]

Like others have said, the gasket isn't the problem here.

[Ipd]

#1 cause of head gasket failure as reported by most HG manufacturers is detonation.

[volvo500bhp]

HeavyIron, on 18 November 2009 - 02:34 AM, said:

Motor has about 2500 miles on it right now. Spoke with Justin and a couple others - I will get pics tomorrow as I am going to see my tech. I want to measure the bolts to check for irregular stretching. I will be taking Justin's advice and putting on a HG from a S60R- it only needs a minor modification to work and is a lot stronger. Hopefully once the head is off no other problems I.E. burnt valve, cracked liner etc are discovered...

While in there I will do that as well. Hey, it's only money...

Hi H I

Sorry to here your problems there is nothing wrong with the standard headgasket so why change it ???? I run 2.5 bar with a standard gasket but arp stud and nut kit with no problems at all please post some pics what tune etc has the car got ? I would say your problem is det.

Russ

[Jardon]

Sorry to hear about the HG. A 22psi actuator and spiking to 1.6 bar sounds a bit iffy to me. Holding 1.5 bar also sounds quite high for a 19t. I run mine at 1.4 bar with a stock 16t actuator and it will hold 1.5 bar to 5000 rpm if I add an extra turn to it. I have been advised by my tuner that holding 1.5 bar is too much - even though it runs afr 10.7 to the redline at WOT and WI from 0.9 bar. The back pressure will be colossal at 7500 rpm with a 22 psi actuator - the wastegate needs to open at that engine speed if you are to flow enough exhaust gas safely. Boost will drop but it's well past efficient by then anyway. The turbine is saturated at around 1.0 bar at 7000 rpm. My next round of ecu fettling will see me asking for a peak of 1.3 bar. It's a 19t - if you want to hold a worthwhile free flowing 1.5 bar then something with a decent sized turbine is the way to go (td05/td06/garrett). Theres no meaningful torque above 6000 rpm with such a small turbo and you are out of the juicy midrange if you upshift at 7500 rpm. A decent tune will see good reliable power/torque with moderate boost from a 19t. Not a lecture but I can see another HG failure on the horizon with such optimistic boost/rpms - just some friendly banter from a fellow 19t owner.

[GeraldJ]

I hate to tell you this but the problem is not the gasket.

I will lay blame on the 22psi WG and hope that it didnt fubar the block.

[HeavyIron]

Ipd - Lucky, on 18 November 2009 - 05:32 PM, said:

#1 cause of head gasket failure as reported by most HG manufacturers is detonation.

I have been playing over the cahins of events leading up to this again and again in my mind. I had made to runs to 120 prior to this but I had rolled into the boost rather than flooring it off the line, and no misfires occured. So on the third trip I brake torqued it and floored it after releasing the brake. What happened next took less than 5 seconds total. engine redlined, (no movement of car) rpms dropped, tires begged for mercy, rpms revved back up to redline and somewhere after 7k is where things got funny. My redline is 7500 but my 6AL did not come with an 8k chip so I am running a 7k until I get one. I thought it would just have a "soft" limiter not being sure what it would do past 7k. After 7k there was a brief hesitation and a slight misfire before it attempted to shift and blowup. I am not sure if the momentary hesitation was from the 6AL's limiter kicking in or not and I did not think the detonation was severe enough to do any damage. I will post up pics of the damaged HG tomorrow. pistons, valves, liners, all look ok. After much thought here is the course that I will be going down.

new head bolts- S60r
new head gasket- S60R
replace cam seals, intake mani gasket. ex mani, gasket, radiator, & expansion tank.

[7 VII 7]

HeavyIron, on 19 November 2009 - 05:51 AM, said:

new head bolts- S60r
new head gasket- S60R
replace cam seals, intake mani gasket. ex mani, gasket, radiator, & expansion tank.

[HeavyIron]

lookforjoe, on 18 November 2009 - 02:01 PM, said:

I wouldn't use the special S60R gasket. If you notice, the S60R also has unique plugs due to the change in height.

diff. in plug length is 26.5mm to 19mm. 7.5mm difference is huge! Something other than the gasket is accounting for that....

[L8 APEKS]

EricF, on 18 November 2009 - 01:56 PM, said:

So?

OP, did you hear any detonation?

I'm just saying...ain't NO way he's getting full timing advance (more likely quite a bit of retard) on pump gas at 23-26psi unless he has meth injection running 100% of the time, or he only fills up with 100+ octane.

Car would probably be faster with less boost and more timing advance on pump gas.

...unless there's something magical about Motronic that I don't know about, anyway. heh.

[Jardon]

You need to ditch that 22 psi actuator spring too unless this is just experimentation on the destruction limit of the block, etc. No good will come of it in the long run. Good luck though.

[turbor850]

maciekb2002, on 18 November 2009 - 02:14 AM, said:

Just to throw my 5 cents, I have almost 20k on my build engine with garrett t04e and now t04b vtrim , never had head gasket issues . My car had seen 28 psi up to 7200 rpms.
You don't need studs for 25psi . That is number that we can put over 400whp with right tune.
Check your head . I hope nothing happen to you like Greek guy , head cyl walls.
Let us now how it looks.

Speaking of your car, where's that dyno ?


and to OP, you hit 7500 with your auto on what tune ?

[GeraldJ]

When you pull the head off dont be surprised to see a dime sized hole in the number 2 piston.

What happened is to much boost to fast and the motor detonated.

[7 VII 7]

GeraldJ, on 19 November 2009 - 03:36 PM, said:

When you pull the head off dont be surprised to see a dime sized hole in the number 2 piston.

What happened is to much boost to fast and the motor detonated.

tough crowd

[esundell90]

Holy cow! That sounds terrible!! Get any pics of the carnage yet?

[GeraldJ]

7 VII 7, on 19 November 2009 - 03:42 PM, said:

tough crowd

Im not trying to be harsh. I am just saying.

I know guys running 30+lbs on single and twin turbo cars and trucks and dont run such a hard spring in the gate. My brother in law has a twin turbo small block with each turbo running 25lbs and he only uses a 12lb gate spring in each.

Just because you want to run 22lbs does not mean you use a 22lb wastegate. The boost curve will be to sharp and will cause problems. Boost has got to come on progressively or the ecu cannot factor for it.

When you brake boosted to 2500 you already had 20lbs built up and then you just let it go on the poor motor just getting up to speed. Kind of like swinging a 12lb sledge hammer at a pinata.

If I remember in your build you used OEM pistons and forged rods. The pistons are the weak link. If you used a stock rod you could put a string on it and shoot arrows from it by now. The problem now is you have a peep hole in your piston.

[TyConn]

those people don't have volvos

[L8 APEKS]

turbor850, on 19 November 2009 - 12:28 PM, said:

and to OP, you hit 7500 with your auto on what tune ?

???

[GeraldJ]

TyConn_S70, on 19 November 2009 - 04:42 PM, said:

those people don't have volvos

Whats that matter? An internal combustion engine is just that. It doesnt matter who makes it or how many cylinders it has. All the rules are still the same.

[Jardon]

TyConn_S70, on 19 November 2009 - 04:42 PM, said:

those people don't have volvos

I think his point was that you don't need a 30psi actuator spring to run 30psi boost when you have a BCS. As a rule of thumb a spring rated at half the required boost is adequate and a third might get you there. It's trial and error - my car with a 4-5 psi wastegate will just about hit/hold 18 psi but with an extra turn on the actuator will hit and hold 21 psi.

[Jardon]

Just to add - a 19t is only above 65% efficient with my boost plot from around 2500 to 6000 rpm. Above 6000 rpm even with only a bar of boost it is off the compressor map (inefficient). The same goes for all TD04 turbos - but less efficient for say a 15g which can only flow less for a given amount of boost. The high rev/high boost will not be nice to drive and will bugger something eventually. Go with lower boost, as many flow mods as you can afford and a good tune.