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I Think My Tranny Just Ate It


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#1 jross

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 08:47 AM

Alright, the car is a 1996 855R, 145k miles. Flushed the tranny about a year ago with Amsoil, had it flushed ~5k miles ago by an independant Volvo mechanic, using Volvo ATF. My hydraulic mounts are starting to sag, the car was going in early next week to have those replaced.

My tranny has always shifted kind of rough; in Econ it tends not to be too bad, and even under moderate throttle a little feathering on the shift keeps it from jolting too bad. In sport, or heavy acceleration, it's pretty harsh. Or, was. Also, sometimes it wouldn't shift into gear right away, and then suddenly bump into gear. This wasn't very common, though.

Pulling into my driveway tonight (in LA), it felt like the tranny was slipping. The driveway is an uphill off a downhill road, and it's not long, so I thought maybe I was just imagining it. I just went out to try and take the car out for a quick roll, and it didn't want to get into gear. Odd. I let it roll back a little in R, and it suddenly jumped. It then felt like it was bogging, and the engine seemed to stumble. I stopped the car, put it in D (had to get clear of the gate), and it did the same thing again -- pause, bump, slip, jolt, studder, slip...

The car ran for ~ 5 minutes total, including 2 minutes warm-up. There was no CEL or arrow (I don't think I let it try and move under it's own power long enough for that O_o).

I'm really hoping what I think happened didn't just happen...


[edit: just to make sure I covered all the bases, I've got an aftermarket exhaust & intake, and strut bar. Other stuff too, but I can't recall offhand.
Also, when I flushed the tranny myself, the fluid wasn't horrible. Somewhat brown, but there was no "burnt" smell. It wasn't black either -- held to the light, it was a red undertone. That's the first time I can confirm the tranny was flushed; I bought the car with 80k on the odo 3 or 4 years ago.]

Edited by jross, 10 December 2004 - 08:51 AM.




#2 jross

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 09:43 AM

Right.. the story get wierder.

I just went out and fired 'er up, to see if the engine was fluctuating at idle in P/N (thanks DrPheta!), no problems at idle, or at 2k rpm in N (held for 10 seconds). Tried moving the car forwards/back under power, and it behaved fine. A little rough going into gear (the whole car bounces a bit O_o), but it didn't do the slip/bog/wierdness from an hour ago. I havn't tried getting the car out of 1st in D.

Sounds like it's back to working huh.gif not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but I'm still fairly worried.

Any input/ suggestions? It really felt like gross mechanical failure earlier, but suddenly it's working. I don't want to try and drive somewhere, and have the tranny fail then... but I don't want to pull the tranny and tear it apart unless I have to.

#3 WhiteT5

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 02:16 PM

Well. All it takes for an auto tranny to die is one slip. It sounds like it may have gotten back on track temporarily, but if it was slipping, I would say the damage has already been done. From what you described, it sounds like the tranny was on its way out anyways. If I were you, I would drive it around the block a bunch of times and see what it does. BTW, if you can feel a jerk or a clunk of any sort when it downshifts, your transmission is TOTALLY shot. Personally, I would start looking at your options (re-built auto, M56 swap, etc.). I know how it is to have a tranny die. It sucks, but I took advantage of it and had my transmission re-built to be stronger.
- Sean
-'95 850 T5 White/Tan (SOLD) // '92 244 5-spd White/Blue // '04 Saab 9-5 Aero Sportcombi 5-spd Navy/Black/Carbon

#4 jross

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 08:27 PM

QUOTE(White850T5 @ Dec 10 2004, 08:16 AM)
Well.  All it takes for an auto tranny to die is one slip.  It sounds like it may have gotten back on track temporarily, but if it was slipping, I would say the damage has already been done.  From what you described, it sounds like the tranny was on its way out anyways.  If I were you, I would drive it around the block a bunch of times and see what it does. BTW, if you can feel a jerk or a clunk of any sort when it downshifts, your transmission is TOTALLY shot. Personally, I would start looking at your options (re-built auto, M56 swap, etc.).  I know how it is to have a tranny die.  It sucks, but I took advantage of it and had my transmission re-built to be stronger.
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Just for clarification.. the sentence I bolded... does that apply if I tell the car to downshift (ie, go from D to 3), or does that apply only when the car downshifts naturally? Usually going into 1st, there's a bit of a clunk (quite a bit, if it's shifted in L, at ANY speed).

I'mma go drive the car around a bit now... (geez, I hope it stays working... at least long enough to find an M56 ph34r.gif if I gotta R&R, might as well come out on top)

#5 T5RBeast

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 08:46 PM

QUOTE(White850T5 @ Dec 10 2004, 10:16 AM)
Well.  All it takes for an auto tranny to die is one slip.  It sounds like it may have gotten back on track temporarily, but if it was slipping, I would say the damage has already been done.  From what you described, it sounds like the tranny was on its way out anyways.  If I were you, I would drive it around the block a bunch of times and see what it does.  BTW, if you can feel a jerk or a clunk of any sort when it downshifts, your transmission is TOTALLY shot.  Personally, I would start looking at your options (re-built auto, M56 swap, etc.).  I know how it is to have a tranny die.  It sucks, but I took advantage of it and had my transmission re-built to be stronger.
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How much was your new tranny set-up?
1995 854 T5R - Black
Euro Dual-bulb Corners | Black Grill w/ Blue Emblem | K & N | Cross-Drilled Brembos | ST 17Psi Chip | Exhaust coming soon...

#6 theunderlord

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 08:48 PM

Shiz John, I'm sorry to hear the bad news! sad.gif But hey... manual swap! could be fuuuuunn!
07.5. 3500HD SRW. LMM. LT. CCLB. 4x4. Pioneer DVD. JL Audio. Rockford Fosgate. Subthump. Katzskin Interior. Fab Fours Front Bumper. Reese Class V. 6K HID. 20% Tint. Bushwacker. Smoked Recon LED Taillights & Third Brake Light. US Speedo Gauge Overlay. Colormatched Vent Visors/AVS Bug Deflector/Door Handles. Black NFab Bars. LineX. 6" Tuff Country Lift. 325/60-20 Nitto Terra Grapplers. KMC XD Black Rockstars. 20"x10" -24 offset 4.56" BS. PCV Re-Route. Banks Boost Tube. AFE PG7. Edge CTS Race. 4" Silverline Downpipe Back Exhaust. 5" MBRP Tip.
To Install/On Order: Banks Intercooler, AirDogII DF-165, Fab Fours Rear Bumper, Diamond Eye Downpipe.

#7 jross

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 08:53 PM

It's not certifiably dead yet... I don't think. I hope. I'm about to try and drive it to the mechanic's... wish me luck!

#8 theunderlord

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 08:55 PM

QUOTE(jross @ Dec 10 2004, 12:53 PM)
It's not certifiably dead yet... I don't think. I hope. I'm about to try and drive it to the mechanic's... wish me luck!
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godspeed lil tranny!
07.5. 3500HD SRW. LMM. LT. CCLB. 4x4. Pioneer DVD. JL Audio. Rockford Fosgate. Subthump. Katzskin Interior. Fab Fours Front Bumper. Reese Class V. 6K HID. 20% Tint. Bushwacker. Smoked Recon LED Taillights & Third Brake Light. US Speedo Gauge Overlay. Colormatched Vent Visors/AVS Bug Deflector/Door Handles. Black NFab Bars. LineX. 6" Tuff Country Lift. 325/60-20 Nitto Terra Grapplers. KMC XD Black Rockstars. 20"x10" -24 offset 4.56" BS. PCV Re-Route. Banks Boost Tube. AFE PG7. Edge CTS Race. 4" Silverline Downpipe Back Exhaust. 5" MBRP Tip.
To Install/On Order: Banks Intercooler, AirDogII DF-165, Fab Fours Rear Bumper, Diamond Eye Downpipe.

#9 ProjectT-5R

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 09:24 PM

I have your manual tranny swap when you find out your tranny is terminal!

Good luck though

Todd
2000 V70R M56
1995 T-5R M56
1989 244 M47
1985 744T M46

#10 WhiteT5

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 11:37 PM

When mine died, it only shifted hard naturally, but I didn't test making it downshift. My new transmission was a little over $2000 USD. It shifts way faster than it used to now. The way I look at it, manuals are lots of fun to drive if you have a good place to drive them. The tend to do better on the track. By track, I mean track like Nürburging where Florian races. A straight line is where it tends to get a bit more complicated. A good auto tranny will shift just as fast and usually faster than some of the best manual drivers out there. Of course, you might say that an auto tranny doesn't transfer power to the wheels as efficiently as a manual, and you'd be right, if we were talking about a stock auto tranny vs. a M56. While the design and placement of the gears internally is essentially the same, and while this does limit the auto to an extent, this can be offset to a certain extent <<--(I like that word smile.gif ) as well by high performance clutches, bearings, reaction plates, torque converter, etc. I also had all of the gears strenghtened by 40-50% so that I won't have to worry about the 300 WHP mark that seems to give the stock autos such trouble. Since 95% of my driving is done in suburban areas with stoplights/stopsigns, idiotic drivers, speed bumps, etc., I chose to go with the auto. Shifting in those conditions can become quite tiresome and annoying. Also, since I don't plan on seriously taking this car to the track, that's another reason I went with an auto. Now the dragstrip is a different story, but I won't go in to that right now.
- Sean
-'95 850 T5 White/Tan (SOLD) // '92 244 5-spd White/Blue // '04 Saab 9-5 Aero Sportcombi 5-spd Navy/Black/Carbon

#11 jross

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 11:55 PM

QUOTE(White850T5 @ Dec 10 2004, 05:37 PM)
When mine died, it only shifted hard naturally, but I didn't test making it downshift.  My new transmission was a little over $2000 USD.  It shifts way faster than it used to now.  The way I look at it, manuals are lots of fun to drive if you have a good place to drive them.  The tend to do better on the track.  By track, I mean track like Nürburging where Florian races.  A straight line is where it tends to get a bit more complicated.  A good auto tranny will shift just as fast and usually faster than some of the best manual drivers out there.  Of course, you might say that an auto tranny doesn't transfer power to the wheels as efficiently as a manual, and you'd be right, if we were talking about a stock auto tranny vs. a M56.  While the design and placement of the gears internally is essentially the same, and while this does limit the auto to an extent, this can be offset to a certain extent <<--(I like that word smile.gif ) as well by high performance clutches, bearings, reaction plates, torque converter, etc.  I also had all of the gears strenghtened by 40-50% so that I won't have to worry about the 300 WHP mark that seems to give the stock autos such trouble.  Since 95% of my driving is done in suburban areas with stoplights/stopsigns, idiotic drivers, speed bumps, etc., I chose to go with the auto.  Shifting in those conditions can become quite tiresome and annoying.  Also, since I don't plan on seriously taking this car to the track, that's another reason I went with an auto.  Now the dragstrip is a different story, but I won't go in to that right now.
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Yea, I was thinking about that in part with the prospect of a manual swap. I live in a small town most of the year, but I don't do alot of stop & go driving; most of my miles are freeway miles, commuting to the power plant & back, or up and down the coast for various reasons. I'm in LA periodically, but I usually stick to freeways there, because the stop & go is a bit faster tongue.gif. I'm not big on drag racing, so I'm not too worried about shift time, but I'm in the twisties ALOT, so a manual tranny has a bit more appeal to me than the prospect of another auto. The added drivetrain effeciency is a nice added bonus though...

A quick question about manual trannies, and buying one used. How important is it to buy one that's been rebuilt/reconditioned?

#12 ProjectT-5R

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 12:21 AM

NOT (but that may be a onesided opinion) it is low miles and was never beat on. Also I have never heard of a M56 "going out" and I have heard of many auto going out. It may have to do w/ the fact that an M56 is made by volvo and the auto is made by AISIN AW co.

Todd

Edited by ProjectT-5R, 11 December 2004 - 12:24 AM.

2000 V70R M56
1995 T-5R M56
1989 244 M47
1985 744T M46

#13 WhiteT5

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 12:35 AM

Heh. Only if Volvo made our Fuel pump relays, throttle position sensors, Mass airflow sensors, o2 sensors, evap valves, and ABS modules. Aisin Warner is a subsidiary of Toyota IIRC and I've generally had pretty good luck with Japanese stuff in the past.
- Sean
-'95 850 T5 White/Tan (SOLD) // '92 244 5-spd White/Blue // '04 Saab 9-5 Aero Sportcombi 5-spd Navy/Black/Carbon

#14 jross

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 12:39 AM

QUOTE(ProjectT-5R @ Dec 10 2004, 06:21 PM)
NOT  (but that may be a onesided opinion)  it is low miles and was never beat on.  Also I have never heard of a M56 "going out"  and I have heard of many auto going out.    It may have to do w/ the fact that an M56 is made by volvo and the auto is made by AISIN AW co.

Todd
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It's okay, I'm just checking... there's a semi-local parts yard that has an M56h swap kit ready to roll, about the same price, and I suspect a few more might turn up. No rebuilds/reconditioned ones so far, but I'm just seeing if that's something that's a big deal with this car. On my old Benz, it was a neccessity...

#15 jross

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 05:34 PM

Anyone know if there's any problems putting a 95 M56H into a 96 850?

#16 WhiteT5

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 06:54 PM

There shouldn't be. The manual transmissions didn't use TCM's, so I can't see a problem there. There is some sort of simple ECU mod that you have to do to stop the flashing arrow though IIRC.
- Sean
-'95 850 T5 White/Tan (SOLD) // '92 244 5-spd White/Blue // '04 Saab 9-5 Aero Sportcombi 5-spd Navy/Black/Carbon

#17 jross

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 07:19 PM

QUOTE(White850T5 @ Dec 11 2004, 12:54 PM)
There shouldn't be.  The manual transmissions didn't use TCM's, so I can't see a problem there.  There is some sort of simple ECU mod that you have to do to stop the flashing arrow though IIRC.
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Yea, I've been researching that.. hopefully I can make sense of that. I was more concerned about the ABS/speedo sensor, but apparently that's tranny mounted in 95 and mounted somewhere else in 96, so I don't have to try and splice that...




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