38 replies to this topic

[Fudge_Brownie]

So we've had a lot of people comment about difficulties getting VS to work in various browsers. It's easy for someone to point the finger and say "your shit is broken, not ours", but let me provide some evidence. Beyond the glaring security problems and terrible memory management Internet Explorer has, it does NOT conform to the accepted web standards.

Translation/Explaination for non-geeks
The web is created by many different scripts and langauges that direct a browser to display content in a specific way. Many of those standards are set forth by the W3C committee, such as HTML. A browser must decide what to do when it reads the websites code. Put a picture here, align some text here, etc. If the browser fails to implement the standard correctly, a good coder's effort is useless. No matter how well the web developer writes code and verifies it against the set standard, it's going to be displayed as though they did a bad job. In reality, it's the browser who is to fault.

For those of you who wonder how come things seem to work fine in IE6/7/8 on major websites, despite results from the Acid tests, large well-funded websites have MANY web developers. Entire teams of people who specialize in these differences, and will design seperate websites for each browser. These seperate sites take in to account the problems, and are tested against the browser; not the standard. They then use code to determine what browser you have, and display the correct one for you. For a small hobby website with one or two developers, this process can take many hours of pulling your hair out and banging your head against the wall.

Because IE6/7/8 is disappointingly the majority of web users right now, they will make sure they provide a decent site for Internet Explorer customers. This is only because Windows is the common operating system and it ships with IE. People use what is easy, close, and familiar, and unknowingly TERRIBLE. Internet Explorer 6 is partialy to blame for the massive amount of spyware that ended up on people's computers. I encourage you to learn about browser basics, and choose a quality web browser. There are many factors that go in to this decision. Features for the user, security, performance, and ability to display the website correctly.

The acid test is an example of website code designed to display content that should appear correctly if the standard has been implemented perfectly. Thsoe who do not follow the standard will get an incorrect picture. There have been several versions of the acid test, and we're currently at version 3.

If you want to read all about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid3

Otherwise, skip to the good stuff. The screenshots from browsers:
http://en.wikipedia....hat_do_not_pass

IE7 is my favorite, not even close:


IE8


Firefox 3.6.4


This could easily turn in to an arguement about operating systems or prefered vendors of computers, such as Mac vs. PC Please, for the love of the internet, don't start that. Keep arguements/discussion to the browser level only.

[rcaddell]

Firefox [/thread]

[Fudge_Brownie]

rcaddell, on 24 June 2010 - 04:15 PM, said:

Firefox [/thread]

While I'm personally a fan of Firefox and have been using it since it was in beta stages and called Firebird (and used to have more memory leaks than an alzheimer's clinic), Google Chrome has been a popular geek alternative. Personally, I've yet to see a reason to switch, but I just want to provide readers with alternatives. Opera is lesser known but some people are a fan.

Some less technical readers might struggle keeping up. I know geeks like myself are infamous for expecting the non-technical to learn way too much. But I promise if you take some time to learn about this stuff, you won't regret it. We all know the internet is here to stay, and the browser is probably your most important tool throughout a day.

[rcaddell]

Fudge_Brownie, on 24 June 2010 - 04:33 PM, said:

While I'm personally a fan of Firefox and have been using it since it was in beta stages and called Firebird (and used to have more memory leaks than an alzheimer's clinic), Google Chrome has been a popular geek alternative. Personally, I've yet to see a reason to switch, but I just want to provide readers with alternatives. Opera is lesser known but some people are a fan.

Some less technical readers might struggle keeping up. I know geeks like myself are infamous for expecting the non-technical to learn way too much. But I promise if you take some time to learn about this stuff, you won't regret it. We all know the internet is here to stay, and the browser is probably your most important tool throughout a day.

Same here. Been using FF for a long while. I was .... unimpressed with Chrome. It is nice that each tab is it's own process ... but I didn't see any reason to switch either. Contrary to what others have told me I did not find it any faster. Even with all my add-ons ... FF is top notch and plenty fast. Noticed no difference in speed when running chrome.

Not to mention that Google owned everything you posted to the interwebs when using Chrome (I believe they removed that from their EULA)

[bergmjs]

I used to love Opera, but Chrome is just so fast. Chrome is tested as THE fastest web browser.

[Kevin.]

rcaddell, on 24 June 2010 - 04:15 PM, said:

Firefox [/thread]

I used to only use Firefox until I started having major problems with it. It would lock up a lot and close randomly. I'm using OS X 10.6.4. Firefox would be using 50% or more of the CPU even when it wasn't loading a webpage. It really hated Facebook and would have horrible lagging problems

I switched over to Safari and I have had 0 problems since.

[lengendsecko87]

IIRC, Safari is dead slow though. I do like the interface, but Firefox and Chrome is better.

[Fudge_Brownie]

bergmjs, on 24 June 2010 - 07:45 PM, said:

I used to love Opera, but Chrome is just so fast. Chrome is tested as THE fastest web browser.

Firefox isn't far off. Besides, I bet most of you don't have internet fast enough to warrant the speed of the browser

KeVTRoN, on 24 June 2010 - 07:50 PM, said:

I used to only use Firefox until I started having major problems with it. It would lock up a lot and close randomly. I'm using OS X 10.6.4. Firefox would be using 50% or more of the CPU even when it wasn't loading a webpage. It really hated Facebook and would have horrible lagging problems

I switched over to Safari and I have had 0 problems since.

Unfortunately, the one aspect of browser debate that is tied to the operating system is that the browser is not equal on all systems.

[Kevin.]

Fudge_Brownie, on 24 June 2010 - 09:09 PM, said:

Unfortunately, the one aspect of browser debate that is tied to the operating system is that the browser is not equal on all systems.

I've heard that before, and sorry to bring operating systems into this, but I thought that many programs ran better on OS X?

[Chilled Man]

I Only use Firefox for VS
Everything else is IE.


And its always the programers fault of the website why a site works with one browser and not another.

Wife does it daily and the sites she makes ... tyco.com works with all so ...

[Fudge_Brownie]

Chilled Man, on 24 June 2010 - 09:29 PM, said:

And its always the programers fault of the website why a site works with one browser and not another.

Wife does it daily and the sites she makes ... tyco.com works with all so ...

And she is the sole code writer for html, css, and javascript content for tyco.com?
While developers CAN accommodate all browsers, it is the programmer of the browser who fails to implement the standard who is the root cause of the problem.

For what it's worth, I was the sole content writer for a website and I tested and accommodated all mainstream browsers. IIRC, the only browser that didn't display things correctly was my own Firefox, but on FC9 Linux. It tested fine on Mac and Windows firefox.

[Chilled Man]

Shes one of many but handles all usablity for them .....

my personal / old site www.atmospherichvac.com works on IE , Firfox and I think a few others.

along with the rest of the sites she has personally done for customers.

This site flat out blows ass on IE and it simpley due to Che doesnt like IE , thats it.

[Fudge_Brownie]

Chilled Man, on 24 June 2010 - 09:42 PM, said:

Shes one of many but handles all usablity for them .....

my personal / old site www.atmospherichvac.com works on IE , Firfox and I think a few others.

along with the rest of the sites she has personally done for customers.

This site flat out blows ass on IE and it simpley due to Che doesnt like IE , thats it.

Simple websites are easy as fuck to make cross platform compatible. Your site holds a fixed resolution, and has zero dynamic content; very simple. Please, don't take this as a knock on your site or your wife's capabilities/efforts. This site is significantly more complex, as most forums are. But you're right that Chuck hates IE, and doesn't even come close to working

Btw, on the product lines section, the bottom of the scroll bar isn't displayed on my set up.... just sayin

[Chilled Man]

Nah I dont , but just being flat out honest he doesnt like IE and why the site sucks with it

[bergmjs]

Well here's the source of my claim that Chrome was the fastest for whoever didn't like that.
http://sixrevisions....er-performance/

[yangotang]

chrome here.

[Charles T]

Fuck all of the Name calling.....

Here are the facts..... (sorry about the trial software)

Edited by charles850t, 25 June 2010 - 07:19 AM.

[bergmjs]

charles850t, on 25 June 2010 - 07:18 AM, said:

Fuck all of the Name calling.....

Here are the facts..... (sorry about the trial software)

I think my chart's better.

[z31jaime]

so what your saying is because whoever runs this site is to lazy or cheap to make a page compatible with IE then IE is to blame because they don't conform to the way this site was coded? The person that coded this site did a great job its was flawless (being serious)......... except that they couldn't figure out how to make it work with the most used Browser on the Face of the Planet (slightly sarcastic) ? while every other site, even small hobby sites which you say would take hours of pulling hair out..... are compatible with IE.

The way i see it. Its no secret Chuck hates IE. and your post trying to "educate" us on why IE sucks and we should use something else, was a waste of time. VS should just have a big banner at the top that says "volvospeed.......DOWN WITH IE" and a firefox logo where the flag is on the current banner. a button should be added at the top that says click here if you use IE, for "COMPATIBILITY VIEW" and that button should re direct them to this....




Please don't take any of my comments above personal. i don't mean for it to be an attack on anyone. I just think its stupid to try to convince people that the issue is not this site. You did a tap dance around it. The site works, just not on IE....because no one in charge wants to put in the time to make it work. Its more easy to make a "standard" coded site and blame IE


with that said i run Firefox because it is more safe, however on many sites i do find Google to be faster. IE just sucks i would even run maxthon or seamonkey before it. I just like to play devils advocate on the IE issue. lol

[Fudge_Brownie]

z31jaime, on 14 July 2010 - 04:30 AM, said:

so what your saying is because whoever runs this site is to lazy or cheap to make a page compatible with IE then IE is to blame because they don't conform to the way this site was coded? The person that coded this site did a great job its was flawless (being serious)......... except that they couldn't figure out how to make it work with the most used Browser on the Face of the Planet (slightly sarcastic) ? while every other site, even small hobby sites which you say would take hours of pulling hair out..... are compatible with IE.

The way i see it. Its no secret Chuck hates IE. and your post trying to "educate" us on why IE sucks and we should use something else, was a waste of time. VS should just have a big banner at the top that says "volvospeed.......DOWN WITH IE" and a firefox logo where the flag is on the current banner. a button should be added at the top that says click here if you use IE, for "COMPATIBILITY VIEW" and that button should re direct them to this....

Please don't take any of my comments above personal. i don't mean for it to be an attack on anyone. I just think its stupid to try to convince people that the issue is not this site. You did a tap dance around it. The site works, just not on IE....because no one in charge wants to put in the time to make it work. Its more easy to make a "standard" coded site and blame IE

with that said i run Firefox because it is more safe, however on many sites i do find Google to be faster. IE just sucks i would even run maxthon or seamonkey before it. I just like to play devils advocate on the IE issue. lol

I don't own or operate this site and have no part in any of the code or process of selecting software. While it may seem that I "tapp danced around", that was hardly my intention. I'm only expressing my personal beliefs/opinion. Chuck will simply tell you "IE sucks, get something better" and you're right; that's no secret. If I remember to, I'll talk to him tonight about the IE banner. I'm serious when I say he might like the idea Though having the website suck might demonstrate the browser's incapabilities and drive people to learn more about the situation. I'm not trying to pull a curtain over anyone's eyes, I have no reason to.

And while we're on the topic of breaking things down, I should add for those who aren't aware that this forum isn't handcoded by chuck. Most forums aren't, it starts out with a base forum software package. As I said earlier, the small hobby sites you're talking about are 2000% less complex than a forum and are significantly easier to write in general, as well as ensure cross browser compability.