42 replies to this topic

[ozzimark]

The stock setup is an EBC!?

Gizmo, on 27 August 2010 - 05:13 PM, said:

If I am missing something here, though, please point it out... I am fairly inexperienced in the way of turbocharged engines. I understand the part-throttle boost control concerns, but with my MBC by 15G wasn't making full boost until above 3500. Isn't that more of an issue of proper wastegate setup?

A good EBC will adjust the target boost based on the throttle position. For an arbitrary example, 100% throttle aims for 20psi, and 50% throttle aims for 10psi.

Something must have been going on with your setup. On my otherwise stock engine with an MBC, I could see 10psi by 2k rpm, and could easily hit target boost with partial throttle over 3k. It was annoying because I could push the pedal down further and no more power would be made, and I could lift up and no less power would be made, until I closed the throttle sufficiently to limit the boost the turbo could generate. That always drove me crazy.

[flyfishing3]

ozzimark, on 27 August 2010 - 05:30 PM, said:

The stock setup is an EBC!?

lol ok, you got me there. bastard. aftermarket EBC then. lol

[ozzimark]

flyfishing3, on 27 August 2010 - 05:32 PM, said:

lol ok, you got me there. bastard. aftermarket EBC then. lol

To play devil's advocate, why don't you like the aftermarket EBCs? I assume it has something to do with a lack of limp-home mode when something bad happens.

[Gizmo]

ozzimark, on 27 August 2010 - 05:30 PM, said:

Something must have been going on with your setup. On my otherwise stock engine with an MBC, I could see 10psi by 2k rpm, and could easily hit target boost with partial throttle over 3k. It was annoying because I could push the pedal down further and no more power would be made, and I could lift up and no less power would be made, until I closed the throttle sufficiently to limit the boost the turbo could generate. That always drove me crazy.

Ok, yeah, *that* would drive me crazy. I'll have to do some investigating to see what made my setup so darn drivable. New turbo is going in next week and I would like to maintain the same feel... The MBC is (::putting on tons of nomex: a turned-around Granger-valve (ball bearing on a spring), with a T-tube to vent pre-valve. You know, like all MBCs. But for some reason it worked very well... Boost came on around 2500RPM, climbed to maybe 7psi or so by 3k-ish, full boost (13psi) around 3500, which it would hold well for the rest of the powerband, Deviated maybe a pound in either direction. I'm going to investigate that wastegate now... thats the only explanation I can think of.

So, now that we've completely threadjacked, do aftermarket EBCs tie in to the TPS?

[ozzimark]

That and a lot of other things, yeah. Depends on the EBC, of course.

[flyfishing3]

ozzimark, on 27 August 2010 - 05:33 PM, said:

To play devil's advocate, why don't you like the aftermarket EBCs? I assume it has something to do with a lack of limp-home mode when something bad happens.

yeah and basically there are few safe guards. your fooling the car. all the valve controls/sensors are there for a reason.

there is too much that can go wrong long term. Pay to play is the rule. at least EBC can be turned off/on and more controlable.

get a good tune or TT. if i was going to try and get more out of my car i'd def. go TT or have Jan write me a new tune. My wife drives my car once in awhile and i plan on giving it to my kids, so i can't have a tire shredder for a DD.

[TorqueSteer]

The main problem with the OEM boost control system is the solenoid. Its fine for stock boost levels, but when you are running above 19-20 psi and/or larger turbos, the solenoid does not react fast enough. I don't have turbotuner, but I am using my Civinco to send the PWM signal to the solenoid based on rpm, load, and TPS signals. Ive tried the stock solenoid, and even the N75 valve that the VW Audi crowd likes, but still no good for me. Ive settled with the solenoid from the greddy profec B, it reacts nice and fast for my setup.

Edited by TorqueSteer, 27 August 2010 - 06:28 PM.

[ozzimark]

flyfishing3, on 27 August 2010 - 06:19 PM, said:

yeah and basically there are few safe guards. your fooling the car. all the valve controls/sensors are there for a reason.

there is too much that can go wrong long term. Pay to play is the rule. at least EBC can be turned off/on and more controlable.

get a good tune or TT. if i was going to try and get more out of my car i'd def. go TT or have Jan write me a new tune. My wife drives my car once in awhile and i plan on giving it to my kids, so i can't have a tire shredder for a DD.

Yeah, I agree with you 100%. I'm actually planning on running the "stock" boost control on my build with TT. If it doesn't provide enough control to do what I want, then and only then will I switch to an EBC.

TorqueSteer, on 27 August 2010 - 06:25 PM, said:

The main problem with the OEM boost control system is the solenoid. Its fine for stock boost levels, but when you are running above 19-20 psi and/or larger turbos, the solenoid does not react fast enough. I don't have turbotuner, but I am using my Civinco to send the PWM signal to the solenoid based on rpm, load, and TPS signals. Ive tried the stock solenoid, and even the N75 valve that the VW Audi crowd likes, but still no good for me. Ive settled with the solenoid from the greddy profec B, it reacts nice and fast for my setup.

Did you try the IPD solenoid? I'll keep that last sentence in mind as I get further along

[TorqueSteer]

ozzimark, on 27 August 2010 - 06:28 PM, said:

Yeah, I agree with you 100%. I'm actually planning on running the "stock" boost control on my build with TT. If it doesn't provide enough control to do what I want, then and only then will I switch to an EBC.

You can still have the boost control (PWM) signal coming from the stock ECU, controlled by TurboTuner in your case. But you should be able to just switch out the solenoids.

Only difference between an aftermarket EBC and and OEM EBC is where the PWM signal is coming from. Have the aftermarket solenoid controlled by the stock systems, and you will have a great setup.

Edited by TorqueSteer, 27 August 2010 - 06:31 PM.

[flyfishing3]

this actually turned out to be a pretty good thread. to bad its 5009 miles from what the OP wanted to know. hahaha

[TorqueSteer]

ozzimark, on 27 August 2010 - 06:28 PM, said:

Did you try the IPD solenoid? I'll keep that last sentence in mind as I get further along

No, I already had the Greddy in place, I just stopped using their PWM box and used the Civinco in its place. The IPD one should be a good option, since im assuming that it addresses the shortcomings of the stock BCS.

Edited by TorqueSteer, 27 August 2010 - 06:38 PM.

[TRACStar]

flyfishing3, on 27 August 2010 - 06:31 PM, said:

this actually turned out to be a pretty good thread. to bad its 5009 miles from what the OP wanted to know. hahaha

+1

[cheapwagon]

TorqueSteer, on 27 August 2010 - 06:33 PM, said:

No, I already had the Greddy in place, I just stopped using their PWM box and used the Civinco in its place. The IPD one should be a good option, since im assuming that it addresses the shortcomings of the stock BCS.

Just throwing this out there but what about the Delco Units? It seems to work great on my stock setup... so maybe it is another option.

[cgally]

I'm pretty sure the IPD is just a rebadged AC delco. I bought mine on amazon. The bcs/tcv and the pigtail connector was 60ish shipped.

[cheapwagon]

cgally, on 27 August 2010 - 09:20 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure the IPD is just a rebadged AC delco. I bought mine on amazon. The bcs/tcv and the pigtail connector was 60ish shipped.

Really?

[theForgottenone]

cgally, on 27 August 2010 - 09:20 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure the IPD is just a rebadged AC delco. I bought mine on amazon. The bcs/tcv and the pigtail connector was 60ish shipped.

Wrong!

http://www.grainger....oid-Valve-6JJ52



I made my own version of IPD HD bcs. Work fine for me as my max boost for my tune is 18psi. Come on strong and very responsive.

[flyfishing3]

i guess brian never did his NOS.

bump for a funny old thread.

[Vagabond]

How much noss can i put on my na?



it only has 210,000 miles on it.

[Gideon35T]

Closer to what the OP started this thread on ...

I've used nitrous on a few different rides and let me tell you ... On your Volvo, it would be drastically more power/reliability per dollar to just crank up your motor a bit. $300 will buy you a very nice tune, $350 will get you a higher output turbo that drops right in, And a few $ in piping will let you have a turboback exhaust so she can breath a bit better. There's guys on here running WAY more aggressive setups on stock motor/trans with >200k miles for many many miles.

Nice nitrous setup to gain 75whp reasonably reliably and then fill the tank on a regular basis ... $$$
vs
$800 to run 14-17psi on a 16t turbo with catback exhaust and a tune from ARD - With a mbc for tweaking

What you wanna do can definitely be done - It's simply not worth it

[Deimos]

ozzimark, on 27 August 2010 - 05:30 PM, said:

The stock setup is an EBC!?

Basically, yes. It's just integrated into the ECU