66 replies to this topic

[volvotool]

http://www.newyorker...30fa_fact_mayer

http://www.nytimes.c...me&ref=homepage

Edited by volvotool, 30 August 2010 - 03:48 PM.

[Pops Racer]

And George Soros is behind half the "progressive" organizations. BIGFINGDEAL.

And really, who reads the NYT or New Yorker? Oh yeah, rich, liberal East Side Manhattan elites.

PFFFT. Nice try.

[volvotool]

Pops Racer, on 30 August 2010 - 07:33 PM, said:

And George Soros is behind half the "progressive" organizations. BIGFINGDEAL.

The big deal is that two relatively unknown oil billionaire brothers have gone beyond merely funding an organization to further their agendas, they've invented a make-believe political party and pretended that it's a populist movement. The kicker: They're counting on people to show up to their events to lend them a flimsy veneer of legitimacy.

Quote

And really, who reads the NYT or New Yorker? Oh yeah, rich, liberal East Side Manhattan elites.

Wrong again, Pops. The latest issue arrived at my rural mailbox while I was splitting firewood. But hey, don't let me ruin a good cliche for you!

[Kevin.]

Seems to me that the Tea Party isn't make believe.

[the commissar!]

The Tea Party is not make believe. But it is also not a "political party". It is a grass roots association of like-minded individuals with no leader, who believe that government is too big, socialism is wrong, and the law of the land should be based solely on the amended constitution of the United States. With core values of Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government and Free Markets, Tea Party Patriots are conservative in nature but not closely aligned with the Republican Party. Needless to say they are not liberals or Democrats in any way.

How can anyone support either republicans or democrats? These fools are converting our country to socialism and bankrupting her at the same time???

If you personally spend more than you make what happens???

Should our government be allowed to continue this trend to the ruine of our country???

Think about it...

Maybe you should be a Patriot

[Zappo]

Biggest problem with the Tea Party is they don't have a clear focus.

[volvotool]

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It is a grass roots association of like-minded individuals with no leader, who believe that government is too big, socialism is wrong, and the law of the land should be based solely on the amended constitution of the United States. With core values of Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government and Free Markets, Tea Party Patriots are conservative in nature but not closely aligned with the Republican Party. Needless to say they are not liberals or Democrats in any way.

Sorry, but nobody at the "grass roots" level thought this up. This is a radically 'conservative,' big business agenda disguised as a populist movement. I don't doubt for a second that there are many millions of people out there frustrated by the federal government protesting under the "tea party" banner, but the tea party itself was invented by big business to further their own agenda. Who knows, the inmates may yet take over the asylum, but it hasn't happened yet.

[volvotool]

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These fools are converting our country to socialism and bankrupting her at the same time???

If you personally spend more than you make what happens???

Should our government be allowed to continue this trend to the ruine of our country???

Think about it...

This is a complete regurgitation of fake news talking points. There is nothing remotely socialist about the United States based on any traditional definition of that word. Anyone who believes Obama is a 'socialist' is a fool.

The only thing wrong with the stimulus plan is that it wasn't big enough, and too much of the money it did spend was given to the major financial institutions who caused this economic crisis. Why shouldn't they go under if they fail?

If nothing is done to boost this economy via increased government spending, then our current economic troubles are only going to get worse.

[volvotool]

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Biggest problem with the Tea Party is they don't have a clear focus.

I think their biggest problem is the transparent bigotry and hatred for "others" that kills any broad-based support for necessary change.

[the commissar!]

volvotool, on 31 August 2010 - 07:50 PM, said:

This is a complete regurgitation of fake news talking points. There is nothing remotely socialist about the United States based on any traditional definition of that word. Anyone who believes Obama is a 'socialist' is a fool.

Then why is so much of our tax money spent on social programs for people who pay little or no taxes and why does it keep getting bigger and bigger. Nothing in the constitution suggests that it is the duty of the government to support its citizens financially. How is it justified for them to take anyone's hard earned money and give it to someone else, regardless of their condition. Charity begins at home and should be handled through a persons chosen conduit...NOT the government. Additionally, if they continue to spend more and more, increasing taxes to help cover the spending, eventually companies will have to trim the fat closer and closer. Less people working and more taxes needed to float the bloated government means eventually you run out of tax payers and have nothing left but a dependent (on government) socialist mess...

The only thing wrong with the stimulus plan is that it wasn't big enough, and too much of the money it did spend was given to the major financial institutions who caused this economic crisis. Why shouldn't they go under if they fail? Indeed, they should be allowed to fail and should not have been given the money in the first place. We do not have enough information to know if the amount of money was enough or not, perhaps just allocated incorrectly...

There are times and conditions when the government should step in to influence the economy, but ordinarily the forces of capitalism should be left to their own course, success or failure, based on the merit of the chosen business model and implementation of such. Conversely, successful entities and individuals should not be punished by excessive tax burden just by virtue of their success. Do remember that ultimately the CONSUMER pays the tax, not the company. Again increasing the dependency cycle.



If nothing is done to boost this economy via increased government spending, then our current economic troubles are only going to get worse.

But if the government continues to spend money it does not have, we will be caught in a cycle of skyrocketing debt that will be impossible to recover from. This insanity has to stop now. Our debt is owned largely by China...if they decide to call that in then what...

Sometimes change hurts but that is exactly what we need now...change, change to more fiscal responsibility at all levels of government AND INDUSTRY, and change to people's level of personal responsibility. Everyone and every entity (government or otherwise) should be required to operate within its budget and not be allowed to borrow more than can reasonably be repaid...We don't even need government to police this...see my comment on bank failures and capitalism. It works if you let it!

volvotool, on 31 August 2010 - 08:04 PM, said:

I think their biggest problem is the transparent bigotry and hatred for "others" that kills any broad-based support for necessary change.

The only bigotry and hatred is for people too lazy to help themselves to anything but the Government pie handouts! This is not about race, or sex, or national origin, or religion, or handicap, it is about responsibility to ourselves and each other.

[s70turbo1998]

Government spending cannot boost the economy. The government has no money. Government spending money it does not have=bad. Really what the debt issue boils down to. Tea Party wants to take the government back from these flagrant spending policies. With government and O approval at an extreme low, it's blatantly obvious the government is not representing the will of the people.

And with regards to saying a human is not an asset, but rather a human being in the business world, you need to really look at the way the business world works. You're fighting for the rights of the low level workers, and it is indeed a tragedy for them, however companies must stay alive. Companies provide jobs, they stimulate their local community at a minimum, and they provide opportunity. This "boo big business" nonsense is irrational. Commissar is on point regarding when and where the government needs to intervene. This is not the time.

Edited by s70turbo1998, 01 September 2010 - 12:08 AM.

[Chilled Man]

volvotool, on 31 August 2010 - 07:50 PM, said:

This is a complete regurgitation of fake news talking points. There is nothing remotely socialist about the United States based on any traditional definition of that word. Anyone who believes Obama is a 'socialist' is a fool.

The only thing wrong with the stimulus plan is that it wasn't big enough, and too much of the money it did spend was given to the major financial institutions who caused this economic crisis. Why shouldn't they go under if they fail?

If nothing is done to boost this economy via increased government spending, then our current economic troubles are only going to get worse.

You really belive this drivel you posted ? thats way to funny

[Pops Racer]

you forgot the money for the teachers unions, AFSCME, SEIU, UAW, and municipal, state budgets to pay govt employees.

Who in turn, pay dues that the unions use to campaign/donate for/to politicians that will give them more money. Patronage at its highest form, if not down right corruption.

You just described Keynesian Economics. It has never worked in the history of the world, it prolonged the great depression, and was a precursor to increase in domestic taxes and fees to pay for it all. And a huge Govt class.

The theory is basically religion in social-democratic states (Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Spain, ...see a trend?)


It crowds out private profit, and is based on the collective not the individual. It surmises that 'over saving' as a population is bad because of lack of consumption, but in truth the spending commences when the prices go down from thrifty consumers behavior (Friedman/monaterism). Its all about wages/labor and the cost of money. And achieving equilibrium. Not outta control spending.

[Pops Racer]

volvotool, on 30 August 2010 - 07:54 PM, said:

The big deal is that two relatively unknown oil billionaire brothers have gone beyond merely funding an organization to further their agendas, they've invented a make-believe political party and pretended that it's a populist movement. The kicker: They're counting on people to show up to their events to lend them a flimsy veneer of legitimacy.



Wrong again, Pops. The latest issue arrived at my rural mailbox while I was splitting firewood. But hey, don't let me ruin a good cliche for you!

Oh thats right because a rich white guy in the hills of Connecticut is a different demographic? Im guessing your income, according to Obama and COngress believe me your rich! HAHAHA.

No but really, WHO reads those ? Their readership is in the toilet and the Times is looking to sell out. Outta touch thats what they are.

And the Tea Party has as much right to advance their ideas as the NAACP.

But hey who am I to get in the way of a good boogie man story.

The fact that they have caused so much furor means they have hit a big nerve. And thats OK by me if it shakes up a few wonks.

How was that Kev?

[Kevin.]

Pops Racer, on 01 September 2010 - 12:43 AM, said:

Oh thats right because a rich white guy in the hills of Connecticut is a different demographic? Im guessing your income, according to Obama and COngress believe me your rich! HAHAHA.

No but really, WHO reads those ? Their readership is in the toilet and the Times is looking to sell out. Outta touch thats what they are.

And the Tea Party has as much right to advance their ideas as the NAACP.

But hey who am I to get in the way of a good boogie man story.

The fact that they have caused so much furor means they have hit a big nerve. And thats OK by me if it shakes up a few wonks.

How was that Kev?

couldn't have said it better

[weekendwarrior]

All this talk about socialism, and yet the government hasn't done anything socialist. Plllllease look up the definition of socialism and then site specifically what the administration has done that is socialist. I shall prepare my rebuttal.

[Kevin.]

the attempted repealing of constitutional rights? gun control to be one. Sean can tell you all about that one


c'mon dude the government is getting control over too much its painstakingly obvious to see

[the commissar!]

weekendwarrior, on 01 September 2010 - 07:19 AM, said:

All this talk about socialism, and yet the government hasn't done anything socialist. Plllllease look up the definition of socialism and then site specifically what the administration has done that is socialist. I shall prepare my rebuttal.

Consider that there are a number of different definitions for socialist forms of government (traditional) and the definition is a moving target. I never said Obama or his administration are socialist, but it is undeniable that this administration's policies, and other historical administrations policies both Democrat and Republican) are pushing the country towards socialism. Any time they begin to infringe upon citizens rights or get involved in capitalistic ventures, they nibble away at what makes America great and moves us toward a more socialistic type government. Modern Socialism.

Trends toward Modern Socialism include:
Infringing on the constitutional rights of citizens
Interfering in capital markets
widening gap on "acceptable" property takings / eminent domain
interfering in individual businesses and industries
and anything done with a Robin Hood mentality of take from the haves and give to the have nots in the interest of "fairness and equality"

[Zappo]

FAULTY-KeVTRoN, on 01 September 2010 - 08:53 AM, said:

the attempted repealing of constitutional rights?

You mean like the 14th amendment?

[volvotool]

Pops Racer, on 01 September 2010 - 12:43 AM, said:

Oh thats right because a rich white guy in the hills of Connecticut is a different demographic? Im guessing your income, according to Obama and COngress believe me your rich! HAHAHA.

Sure. I'm rich. I heat the house with wood and drive a 12-year old Volvo. Don't let any facts get in the way of a good rant, though.

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No but really, WHO reads those ?

People who can read, and enjoy doing it? And I'm guessing nearly every guest on Fox 'News' reads the Times, too, because they sure enjoy plugging their books as a "NY Times best-seller" when they make the list.

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And the Tea Party has as much right to advance their ideas as the NAACP.

Sure, because everybody knows that white people were brought over as slaves, then systematically denied their rights for over a century after emancipation, right? Really, how do you rationalize the need for a group comprised entirely of white people as a political party in 2010?

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How was that Kev?

Entertaining as usual.