36 replies to this topic

[volvotool]

besthaticouldo, on 09 November 2010 - 10:52 PM, said:

you missed what i was asking...what if they weren't terrorists? what if they were just citizens from a different country that were suspected of being terrorists? or are you under the ignorant impression that everyone from that region is in fact a terrorist? because we did torture what turned out to be non terrorists. is that upholding our laws and ways and morals? i don't think so.

You're using logic, appeals to reason and words that make people's heads hurt. Keep it mono-syllabic with lots of 'splosions or you'll lose your audience! Like this:

Edited by volvotool, 10 November 2010 - 12:48 AM.

[Pops Racer]

Good job, rep down any one who has an opposing position, like yours is the absolute answer. Losers.

Torture 'em all day long I say. If it saves one innocent life its worth it (and it did, dont be theoretical). You people need to wake up and face reality. Be nice to 'em all you want, your the first person they'll behead, cuz you have the weakest mind.

Mistakes made are common, his biggest was starting this bailout bullshit.

And dont call out the Constitution, you dont have a clue which article or clause deals with torture. I could site the General Welfare clause like they do now to to enact legislation,like health care, and on a good day get approval to torture you.

And no ones innocent.

[volvotool]

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Torture 'em all day long I say.

Dude, you ARE the Taliban.

[TheCapn]

besthaticouldo, on 09 November 2010 - 10:52 PM, said:

you missed what i was asking...what if they weren't terrorists? what if they were just citizens from a different country that were suspected of being terrorists? or are you under the ignorant impression that everyone from that region is in fact a terrorist? because we did torture what turned out to be non terrorists. is that upholding our laws and ways and morals? i don't think so.

I believe collateral damage is the term. It sucks but it's part of global conflict. Always an "acceptable" amount of collateral damage

[volvotool]

TheCapn, on 10 November 2010 - 01:55 PM, said:

I believe collateral damage is the term. It sucks but it's part of global conflict. Always an "acceptable" amount of collateral damage

So if the FBI guns down members of your family while pursuing a terrorist will that be an "acceptable" amount of collateral damage to you?

[cheapwagon]

volvotool, on 10 November 2010 - 02:21 PM, said:

So if the FBI guns down members of your family while pursuing a terrorist will that be an "acceptable" amount of collateral damage to you?

Sad as it would be they would be giving the ultimate sacrifice to our country and our fellow citizens.

[Fake-R]

Prezman26, on 09 November 2010 - 09:04 PM, said:

When can we expect Obama to apologize?

What does this have to do with the thread?



We blame terrorists for going into Iraq, but, uhm, what?

[TheCapn]

volvotool, on 10 November 2010 - 02:21 PM, said:

So if the FBI guns down members of your family while pursuing a terrorist will that be an "acceptable" amount of collateral damage to you?

Not really the same argument death vs. torture. Torture results in a live albeit emotionally scarred individual. I'm not arguing the right vs wrong aspect of torture, just the historical use of it. Wartime intel uses and in my opinion requires techniques like waterboarding. While I don't want to be tortured, I can sit back and say I'd give up more info if I was.

Put yourself in the chair and assume someone is asking you questions:

Where are zee weapons?

I'm not telling

Pleeeze tell us....

^That's not as effective

[volvotool]

Jesus Christ this is sad.

For the record, I went to an anti-interrogation school while in the military, and the consensus in the curriculum at that time was that torture doesn't work.

As a nation, we hadn't systematically and legally employed torture before George W. was President. Sad to say it's STILL our official policy under Obama. (Power corrupts, eh?)

Imagine the United States holding the Nuremberg trials now. Imagine us attempting to prosecute the soldiers of another nation for war crimes. Imagine that we still had the moral authority to pull it off, because imagination's all we have at this point.

Edited by volvotool, 10 November 2010 - 05:24 PM.

[Ihatespeedbumps]

It should be pointed out that we defeated Nazi Germany without the use of torture. I'm bewildered by the fact that we can't take on a couple of guys with a bad attitude and box cutters.

[s70turbo1998]

It's like Captain Hindsight () has an entourage. Who gives a shit. The past has happened, let's stop picking sides about who was wrong and work with what we have. If people spent as much time bitching about the tanking economy and rampant government as they did about terrorists' feelings, we might actually be making some progress on something tangible.

[TheCapn]

meh

[volvotool]

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The past has happened, let's stop picking sides about who was wrong and work with what we have.

Translation: A Republican President broke the law. I vote Republican, so fuck it.

I'm sure Boehner will use the subpoena power of his House to investigate Chief Executive crimes, though, as long as they involve a Democratic Chief Executive and his dick.

Wow. "Who gives a shit" and "meh" used in back to back posts to explain how the poster feels about torture being our new normal. How fucked up are we?

Edited by volvotool, 10 November 2010 - 09:02 PM.

[Chilled Man]

Your not an american citizen you dont get american citizen rights.

Not sure whats hard to understand there ?


If we could we should be waterboarding every illegal that enters this country

[s70turbo1998]

How is torture normal? Torture is so minimal an occurrence relative to problems that occur here in the U.S. every day. Arguing about the merits of torture is an empty argument used for the sake of bolstering one's humanitarian self concept. What exactly will you do about it?

[TM850R]

volvotool, on 10 November 2010 - 09:04 PM, said:

Translation: A Republican President broke the law. I vote Republican, so fuck it.

I'm sure Boehner will use the subpoena power of his House to investigate Chief Executive crimes, though, as long as they involve a Democratic Chief Executive and his dick.

Wow. "Who gives a shit" and "meh" used in back to back posts to explain how the poster feels about torture being our new normal. How fucked up are we?

So back to your analogy about the FBI gunning down your family while pursuing a terrorist. You would find it completely acceptable that the FBI had a person in captivity that could stop a terrorist act before it happened, but they dont get any information from him because they were too soft. Thousands die instead of one person being hurt (not killed). Although I may not agree with torture to get information since there are other forms of interrogation but I cant speak for the people that made those decisions nor can I begin to imagine the desperate situation they were in.

If you are innocent and the FBI does these things to you, what on earth lead them to believe that you were not innocent? There are damn good reasons why they take people in. Look what happens when your country is soft. France is a great example of what happens.

Chilled Man, on 10 November 2010 - 09:47 PM, said:

Your not an american citizen you dont get american citizen rights.

Not sure whats hard to understand there ?


If we could we should be waterboarding every illegal that enters this country

I agree to an extent. As long as we conform to the conventions passed down from past conflicts. Gotta try to play by the rules at least so that we dont alienate every allied country.

[volvotool]

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You would find it completely acceptable that the FBI had a person in captivity that could stop a terrorist act before it happened, but they dont get any information from him because they were too soft. Thousands die instead of one person being hurt (not killed).

This is a great example of how TV has fucked up any chance for reasonable dialog on this subject: This is much more likely to be just a recap from an episode of "24" and not an actual incident.

Quote

Gotta try to play by the rules at least so that we dont alienate every allied country.

Too late for that. Does anyone on this board ever travel abroad, know any foreigners, and bother to listen to what they have to say? It is over. We have flushed our values down the drain pursuing a 'war' that scarcely deserves the name, and we no longer have the respect of the rest of the world. We put people on airplanes and take them to shithole countries to be tortured. I guess that doesn't matter to most Americans, but the rest of the world has noticed.