471 replies to this topic

[Oreo931]

Ghost Shadow, on 10 February 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

adam, that did not sound too good

Yup. Realized that one second after I posted. I'm gonna go ahead and edit that now

[s_moneh]

u americans with next day shipping my tracking number hasnt even been updated from its "electronic info received"

[pedro fandango]

s_moneh, on 10 February 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

u americans with next day shipping my tracking number hasnt even been updated from its "electronic info received"

same here, i want my pulley lol

[Aequitas_Veritas]

Just got mine, looks sweet! too bad its going onto the S60 engine in my garage.

[thunderbirdsc]

Ghost Shadow, on 10 February 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

OK, and what is your point of quoting Wiki?

Got mine the other day, its beautiful...rubbed it a little

And what is your point of quoting my Wiki quote?

Yosser, on 10 February 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

thunderbirdsc, on 10 February 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

Over time, the energy dissipating (rubber/clutch/fluid) element can deteriorate from age, heat, cold, or exposure to oil or chemicals. Unless rebuilt or replaced, this can cause the crankshaft to develop cracks, resulting in crankshaft failure.

So why are we not reading about a pandemic of crank failures then?

Just asking

There are quite a few engine failures on this forum. The fact is, very few members would have the time or budget to move forward with a complete autopsy to diagnose the mechanism or mechanisms that ultimately lead to engine failure. All we will ever hear is the component that finally failed, but not why. Additional vibrations in the crank shaft may not catastrophically break the crankshaft ,but It can. There are a myriad of possible problems harmonics can be the root cause of. Thats why starting in the 70's Mitsubishi bought the patent on the Harmonic Balancer and begin developing and using them on their engines. The rest of the automotive industry did not follow suite just for fun. There are plenty of studys out there showing the effects a properly designed balancer has on the harmonics of the system.

Will removing it cause your engine to fail? - I don't have that answer.

[thunderbirdsc]

For someone wanting to learn a little more about what a harmonic balancer does, http://www.bhjdynami...Damper_Info.pdf, is a good starting point.

[pedro fandango]

thunderbirdsc, on 10 February 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

There are quite a few engine failures on this forum

i'll admit i don't use VS that much, how many of the failures have been the cranks?

[thunderbirdsc]

pedro fandango, on 10 February 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

i'll admit i don't use VS that much, how many of the failures have been the cranks?

I said there are quite a few engine failures, not crank failures. The point is if a ringland is broken, rod bent, headgasket blown, bearings spun, so on and so forth, we will never really know what the driving mechanisms of the failure were. No one has the massive budget to completely analyze an engine failure. Root cause analysis, as it is called in industry, can be a time consuming and expensive piece of information to track down. What we as enthusiasts are left with is what part ended up actually failing, but usually the why is left an unknown.

A failure can compromise of numerous factors all put together into an equation. Some of the factors are small and some are large. Take one out and the equation may still trend toward the same point, on the other hand take one out and it may totally change. How large is harmonic vibrations to the equation of rod failures, cyclinder wall failures, bearing failures, etc? No telling and you and I will never know, we can just speculate using what knowledge each of us learned in our lifetimes.

I am not trying to make a decision for anyone, just sharing.

[ARD - Lucky]

I think bringing information to light is always a good thing so long as the information is accurate. To give credit to Thunderbirdsc it sounds more like he's providing food for thought rather than concrete empirical advice, nothing wrong with that IMO.

To each their own, decide for yourself what you want, do some research, and then take action.

Part of why I started offering tuning that is custom to each setup is due to the number of failed engines, typically as a result of improper mapping with specific regard to timing. Runing a stage 1 tune from vendor X on a 18T with catless downpipe is going to cause troubles. I suspect that is a large contributor to engine failures on the forum, not exclusively mind you but certainly a factor.

End of the day you're right, few have the funds or time or inclination to pursue root cause analysis... I would bet that's partly because alot of us don't want to really know

[Ghost Shadow]

thunderbirdsc, on 10 February 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

And what is your point of quoting my Wiki quote?

i asked why you needed to quote Wiki. You quoted it for what? for us to read? FOR WHAT REASON DID YOU DO THAT? Simple question you still didnt answer, but instead asked my i quoted your post. SMH

[ozzimark]

thunderbirdsc, on 10 February 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

I said there are quite a few engine failures, not crank failures. The point is if a ringland is broken, rod bent, headgasket blown, bearings spun, so on and so forth, we will never really know what the driving mechanisms of the failure were. No one has the massive budget to completely analyze an engine failure. Root cause analysis, as it is called in industry, can be a time consuming and expensive piece of information to track down. What we as enthusiasts are left with is what part ended up actually failing, but usually the why is left an unknown.

Certainly, but usually the failure mode is usually obvious to anyone with a good understanding of the system. I bet >75% of failures around here are a direct result of detonation. A broken crank is something I have NEVER seen in all my years trolling Volvo forums, and is a far cry from your original statement of bearing failure. Don't get me wrong, I love a good discussion on doing things to improve these engines and the potential issues that may arise, but your post struck me as being overly vague to the point of looking like fear-mongering.

Ultimately, we're pushing the engines beyond the design specs. By changing the rods and pistons, the mass of the system changes, thus the resonant frequency. Who is to say that the harmonic damper isn't going to amplify the harmonics you mentioned with the new configuration? Ultimately, we just run with it and hope we don't blunder into something unexpected, because we don't have the time or resources to do that kind of analysis. If we did, we wouldn't be using a Volvo engine anymore

[thunderbirdsc]

The greater the rotational mass on the end of the crank, the greater the ability to resist changes in velocity/direction. This is a factual statement.

Reducing the mass to 1.2lbs you will loose a large portion of that resistive ability.

Another factor is the dampening the rubber ring brings to the equation, but I am ignoring that for this brief thought process. This can only add to the dampening loss however.

From the above statements you can conclude that moving from a higher mass pulley to a lower mass pulley will reduce the engines ability to resist the multiple times per second angular velocity increases to the crank caused by torque from combustion forces using the rod and a moment arm. You are %100 going to loose some dampening ability.

a 6lb 10" diameter disk at 6000rpm stores 1/3 hp or 271joules energy
a 1.2lb 10" diameter disk at 6000rpm stores 54joules or 1/10 a hp.

You are not going to gain anything beside an aluminum sheen.

[brad850]

thunderbirdsc, on 11 February 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:

Reducing the mass to 1.2lbs you will loose a large portion of that resistive ability.

1.1 lbs!

This thing is beautiful lucky. I can send you my old one if you want it thunderbird

[thunderbirdsc]

Shipping will be killer though, with a heavy performance robbing beast such as the stock crank pulley weighing down the delivery truck.

=D

[pedro fandango]

i'm intending to run mine on a later lighter crank, with lightweight flywheel (2.9kg lighter). I think i'm screwed lol

[Hippicus Rebuildacus]

MARK YOUR LURCKING.... p.s. why you up so early on a saturday... come help install pulley

[crazykn]

I just installed the pulley right now and took it for a test drive. From my butt dyno, there is definitely less turbo lag and faster reving! The install was quick, thanks to my Craftsman C3 Impact wrench (with lithium ion battery), it took off that 30mm bolt within a two seconds. After I got the four bolts off, I had to use a small pry bar to pry off the old pulley and the rest was pretty straight forward. I had a very hard time torquing the center bolt with my torque wrench, because it kept spinning the crank, so I just used the impact wrench to get it tight in there (I wish I had a better way to torque it down).

[Hippicus Rebuildacus]

Samesies... Impact gun took the 30mm nut off in .2 seconds same with the 10mm bolts tapped off the old pulley shimmy shammy went "wow" at the original vs. new weight installed. estimated 180 ft/lbs by holding the impact gun on it for 5 minutes then installed the 10mm bolts torques em up slapped the belt back on then proceeded to poison myself by running my car in the garage because it was too cold to open the doors. watched the pulley go around and around and around and around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and around and around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and around and around and around and aroundand around and around and aroundand around and around and around... threw up like Paris Hilton then put the flappy down (like paris hiltons vajayjay) then put the wheel on then didnt get to butt dyno it because the roads froze over. But I pretended I was going fast and made car noises... sexification complete... butt dyno tomorrow...

[Vagabond]

Hmm, I might need to do this with my timing belt.

When will the red anodized ones be available?

[Hippicus Rebuildacus]

Installed & love it. again not a ton I could do in terms of street testing cause shits still frozen so basically I just did burnouts... it was fun anyone have audible change?