36 replies to this topic

[Boxman]

So I have got myself some Glyco bearings, for approx. 30 euro's, to put in my engine that's going to deliver about 400HP. However, after hearing horror stories about these allegedly low quality bearings, I went looking for some OEM Volvo bearings as they should be good.

So I went to the dealer and ordered some bearings with p/n 30731538. Now I've heard some people here say that they had to pay 3- or 4-fold the price of the standard Glyco bearings - however, I only have to pay like 40 euro's. How can this be? Is the new part number (it used to be 274478) of lower quality than the original?

[lookforjoe]

Need more input. Rod's? Main's? Did you have the machine shop size them so you know what to order? Non-OEM bearings are sold as kits that don't need to follow Volvo's (color?) coding for sizing. I used Toga Bearings (much less that what you are paying), and they have held up fine over the past 40K as I gradually have raised my output.

[Boxman]

H-beam rods and Glyco mains. The crankshaft as a whole puts less stress on the mains as compared to the connecting rods, who have to withstand extreme pressures at 7000rpm due to the rapid change of direction of motion. The crankshaft just turns and that's it, so Glyco should be fine. I know that high-rpms destroy the glyco bearings (i've seen that in numerous topics now) and those people said they switched to Volvo bearings - and that they were twice or even multiple times as expensive as the Glyco's.

Now that doesn't seem to be the case here, and I'm wondering if the quality of the Volvo bearings has degraded. So if anyone with knowledge on this could comment, please do.

Edit// Oh right. I'm talking about the bearings for the rods ofcourse. So I've got Glyco's for the mains and I also have Glyco's for the rods, but I want to install Volvo OEM bearings on the rods as they are supposedly better.

And yes, i need standard size.

[lookforjoe]

I'd get the Toga bearings, then. I'm using them with my H-beams for 40K, as I stated, and running high boost/rpms/ output with NO problems.

[Rsterns]

When I did my build, I had difficulty finding bearings. I found Glyco's in England and had them shipped to the USA. I'm running Lgspeed rods. Cryotreated all of it. Currently 60K miles on the build, and no issues.

[Boxman]

Did you have the Glyco standards or de Glyco sputters?

[Rsterns]

Boxman, on 04 October 2011 - 05:36 PM, said:

Did you have the Glyco standards or de Glyco sputters?

They were STD. As well as the size.

[wizzard_al]

I'm in the process of building a 2000/2001 B5234T3 (HPT) engine, and am facing the same situation on bearings. Talked to CJ Yother about the engines he builds, and he uses stock Volvo main bearings. I'm seriously considering them as well, but will look at the Toga rod bearings.

Why? If you go through VIDA (or VADIS) you will notice that Volvo sizes the main bearings by the markings on the block and the crank. For instance, my spare block is 1BBBBBB and my crank is 1CCCBBB. That means, according to Volvo, I need
30731542 (red) main bearing shells for bearings 1-3 for the top shell ONLY!
30731544 (yellow) main bearing shells for bearings 1-3 for the bottom shell, and for bearings 4 and 6
31251598 (yellow) for main bearing shell for the flange bearing at bearing #5

Volvo has a big table to use to determine which shell goes in the upper or lower portion of a bearing, depending on the markings on the block and the crank. You have 3 sizes, red (thin), yellow (medium), blue (thick). You literally determine what thickness you need for the top shell, and then what thickness you need for the bottom shell from markings on the block and the crank. In my case, the first 3 bearings need red top shells, and yellow bottom shells, so I end up buying 3 extra bearing shell sets just for those 3 main bearings. Then the last three bearings all need yellow bearing shells, top and bottom.

Do we really need to do this complexity? Well, I think Volvo is fanatic about clearances on their bottom ends, and they have done this to get the same consistent clearance on all the main bearings. Works for me, I have over 213,000 miles on my original engine, this spare is for an eventual replacement, or if someone really wants a rebuilt engine. While bearings like Clevite, Glyco, Toga seem to have one size fits all for the main bearings, it tells me that the clearances won't be the same across all the bearings. Will this matter? Probably not greatly, but I like knowing that I have really consistent bearing clearances on all main bearings. Used to race red block Volvos (544, 122, 142) and we always checked bearing clearance to make certain it was within a very tight range of clearance. I"ll guess the difference between red, yellow and blue main bearing shells is in the range of .001" or so between each of the different sizes, but that may enough to eventually mean the bearing with more clearance than stock starts to take a pounding more than necessary.

How important is this? Do you really think Volvo would go to all this trouble to have this many extra spares available if they really didn't need them? Could be they didn't want to change their tooling, and it is cheaper to carry more bearings, or maybe it is just in recognition of the difference in the aluminum block vs cast iron crank. Don't know. Maybe Che can comment.

Edited by wizzard_al, 04 October 2011 - 09:39 PM.

[eurotrashed]

I would definitely use the Volvo bearings for mains and rods. I have an engine with over 263,000 miles on it. The bottom end must be right. I will use the Volvo mains/rods when I rebuild with H beam rods and larger turbo,etc,etc. Also, the crankshaft has alot of stress to deal with.(torsional) It absorbs what punishment the rods give it and converts that to be fed to the flywheel for our torque go factor. Pretty impressive for a 2.3L.
CJ Yother uses them,TKI uses them in their race engines...thats good enough for me.
Stan

[slcturbo]

Glyco main and rod bearings from what i can remember on my VW 12V VR6 stock rebuild. The car has been pushing ~20psi ~400whp for 3 years with no issues.

[wizzard_al]

Not badmouthing Glyco, but they do NOT have main bearings that seem to fit the sizing method used by Volvo. As I said, I think that makes a difference. Most people won't remember, but when Volvo introduced the B18 engine, it had 5 main bearings for a 4 cyl engine, and it had more bearing surface area than a 283 Chevy engine. Their way of testing the engine was to run it at full power (5500-6000 RPM) for 500 hours straight, and then tear down the engine. NO measurable wear. Of course, today we have supposedly gone to smaller bearing sizes to obtain less friction, but you get the idea, Volvo is fanatical about reliability, and here is where I think they have the right idea on what bearings to use in these whiteblock engines.

For red block engines, I think it matters far less, they don't have to worry about matching bearings based on the block/crank combination. Yes, they changed bearing sizes in later years, but that was for reduced friction.

[Boxman]

So from what I understand, I'd best (if I want the best reliability) tear down the bottom end again and get rid of the Glyco mains aswell. This'd be a fun job. Any ideas on how to clean the liquid gasket?

I too think that Volvo really understands what they are doing, and they would not have designed their bearing system if it had no benefits - no wonder that the mains that came out of my revision engine of 300.000km had almost no visible wear on them.

Question though; where can I find these markings on the block and the crank?

[Johann]

Boxman, on 05 October 2011 - 08:22 AM, said:

no wonder that the mains that came out of my revision engine of 300.000km had almost no visible wear on them.

It's just that the bearings can handle the job well. Oiling has to do with it also.
Glyco should be good enough. Don't base your opinion on only one horror story. Often there is more to it.
If the crank runs smooth and play is within spec there is no need to change the bearings at this point. Only if you fully open up the engine it is advised to change bearings, basically no matter the condition, while the engine is still open.

Markings are in the block behind the flywheel just above the crank split right side of the crank.

[Boxman]

Well it's still on the engine stand and all I've done so far really is glueing the bottom halfs together. I couldn't do any more because I didn't have the right conrods. So it's not that much of a hassle to open it up again.

Also I wasn't really sure about the thickness of the liquid gasket layer I put on. When applying with the roller, i could only barely see a thin pink-ish uniform film of liquidgasket - most of the gasket was absorbed by the roller instead of applied to the metal. I've seen others make it really pink (still uniform) while mine was closer to transparent than pink.

As for the horror story; i've actualy heard several. One from a Dutch guy who said those Glyco's were bad, others from someone on eBay who spun them, but had no problems with OEMS, and another on here who had them fall apart, badly damaging his crankshaft.

But those were actually the rod bearings, not the mains.

[Johann]

Surface needs to be cleaned very well, also degreased. After applying the gasket with a roller small drops must remain. The drops are tiny yes but when the surface is clean and also flat it should form an adequate film and seal well.

Before seal,



After,



Use a fine meshed foam roller.

And yes those are Glyco bearings..

[Boxman]

Ok that does look quite like the coating mine had.

I'll go look this afternoon for the markings on my block. Who kwows, maybe they're all the same and I can just use 1 size fits all.

[Boxman]

OK so my block is 1BAABBB, but where do I find the markings on my crank?

[lookforjoe]

Boxman, on 05 October 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:

Ok that does look quite like the coating mine had.

I'll go look this afternoon for the markings on my block. Who kwows, maybe they're all the same and I can just use 1 size fits all.

Pigs might fly, also - The odds of Volvo assembling your mains with only 1 sizing for all are probably one in a million.

EDIT: Good luck with this, all jokes aside!

[wizzard_al]

The back of the crank also has size markings on it. As I said, my block is 1BBBBBB, my crank has 1CCCBBB. You cannot see the crank markings unless it is out of the engine, the counterweight has them, but if the bottom of the block (intermediate carrier) is bolted on, it covers the markings.

Boxman: remember, the 10 X 1.5 mm main bolts that hold the intermediate carrier to the block are torque to yield, in other words, use once, then throw away! You need to buy 12 more! That is why I am checking out ARP for studs to use. I've gotten close, but need to call one more time to find the right stud. Got one sample, and the threads in the block were too short, in spite of what ARP tech support told me. Bought another test stud, and it still isn't long enough. Figure I'm going to have to buy a stud that is about 5.5" long, and the one I have is 4.9" and I have part numbers for ones up to 5.25". Now that I've actually put one into a block, I can figure out what size I need.

Spoke this afternoon to a major engine shop where I ordered my sample AP stud. They bore, balance, put in sleeves, balance crank/rods, valve jobs, rebuild heads, port heads, etc, and then they build engines. Very impressive shop, and they have a lot of experience in big block domestic engines, as well as foreign engines. When I discussed Vovlo's main bearing schema, he told me that Honda and others do the very same. Domestic manufacturers used to have one size fit all, but later went to offering sets of bearings with slightly under or oversize. What they do with engines is measure the crank and block, and then put in bearings to match to get the proper clearance. They may use up to three sets of main bearings to get all of them into the proper clearance range. He said using the Honda or Volvo system of colored bearings would save time, and is basically what they do with high performance engines they build. Also said I may be close to right on my guess in size difference between different colored bearings. they typically measure bearing shells and will switch them for as little as .0005" difference, about half of what I was suggesting, but they are looking for very tight tolerances.

Not to say that what Boxman or Hussein did was wrong, shop owner also told me this is exactly what they did for domestic engines for years, and then when they had options, they started sizing bearings to the engine. But in many cases for street engines, it is probably close enough, unless you have an engine that is at the maximum for tolerances.

If anyone is interested, when I finally size the studs for the intermediate carrier, I can let you know what they are. Also, I've checked on head studs as well, and have that number, but I want to talk to ARP about those one more time, as well. VIVA has head studs for sale, and I think I can get them cheaper going locally through this shop, but I have to do the work to find the correct ones. The ones I know about have been used in a V70, probably about a '98, but I think the threads in the block are slightly too short, so want to check that out.

Edited by wizzard_al, 06 October 2011 - 06:11 AM.

[Boxman]

I was afraid of that, but really? I just bought those.. I only put them in there once, just let them sit, and haven't run the engine with them ofcourse. Does that still mean I need new ones?