69 replies to this topic

[TurboTim]

Texas850Turbo, on 21 November 2011 - 04:57 AM, said:

I'd rethink that exhaust setup if I were you. That GT35 is never going to spool the way you have it set up, unless you plan on revving it out to 10k or something. When the wastegate starts to open at 15 psi only a small amount of exhaust is going to the big turbo- only exhaust from 3 cylinders that finds its way around that 90 bend and into and out of the wastegate at that.

The other problem is that having the cylinders going to different turbos means some cylinders will have higher backpressure (the ones going to the 15g or whatever), and the others will be breathing somewhat easier out the GT35. This effects the volumetric efficiency balance between cylinders, which means different ones will need different amounts of fuel and will have different optimal spark timing. When you go to tune the engine, whichever cylinder has the worst efficiency or highest backpressure/reversion will probably get the hottest piston crown temps and start knocking first, so you will have to tune for that one, leaving a bunch of power untapped in the other cylinders.

I know it sounds fun to do a "twin turbo" setup, but I would really advise against it. The problem with the GT3076 is that the turbine is much smaller than the compressor wheel, driving down the turbine efficiency and making it take longer to spool. If you get a properly matched Garrett or other turbo (the new GTX3071R should do the trick, or any EFR turbo), you will be much happier and your engine will appreciate it.

Go look at other people compound setup. You dont understand how it works. All 5 cylinders exhaust will go through the big turbo. Back pressure will not be that diffrent...or enough to matter. Does it matter on a stock manifold? Have you seen a stock manifold? How do you think that work for tuning. We are not talking a tuned manifold. There is no tuned pressure waves we are working with. Just flow.

boosted_brick, on 21 November 2011 - 05:33 AM, said:

i was just about to ask about this i've heard different sized turbos get you both low and high rpm power so i'm sure benefit you. what made you not want to go with ITB's? maybe i missed your post about that but i know you can get 'em from bikes like hyabusa. just have to cut one off to make it fit!

anywho, this is a neat build. are you going to powdercoat anything while you're building or just leave it how it is?

Price is the main reason. Plus then I would have to seal them and that might be tricky. Not to mention getting 5 bike throttle bodies.

[Jardim]

Compound setup?

Claymore is gonna like this.

Good luck with this interesting build....I always wonderered what our cars would be with 2 13gs and this is kinda like that...except compound with a GT35R lol.

[claymore]

Jardim, on 21 November 2011 - 07:10 AM, said:

Compound setup?

Claymore is gonna like this.

Good luck with this interesting build....I always wonderered what our cars would be with 2 13gs and this is kinda like that...except compound with a GT35R lol.

Yep, I'm waching with great interest. you will find no hating from me

[lookforjoe]

TurboTim, on 21 November 2011 - 04:20 AM, said:

I like the AUDI A8 Maf housing. I was looking exactly for something like that, Lookforjoe

Nice welds too! Did you do those?

I used the A8 MAF sensor too (needs a different plug), but the flow is capped by the ECU, not the housing or sensor.

I did not do the welding on the 'real' manifold - that was Nathaninwa from TurboBricks

[Vagabond]

Burn-E, on 21 November 2011 - 02:25 AM, said:

Don't be an ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD, he obviously means the engine is built with forged rods and pistons.

OP, looking forward to more updates!

Awesome how I was the only dude who had +1 his post, but it's cool.

Forums are no place to have fun.

[Gideon35T]

Due to turbo size issues + manifold design: I think the power curve is going to be shaped like an "M" and be a nightmare for a tuner ...
I'm all for people doing new and unique things ... but don't you think this is unnecessary? A properly sized turbo or a variable vane would yield much better results. Or if you wanted to go really unique you could have ditched the turbos and found a used centrifugal supercharger.
I do like the custom intake manifold though. Due to the elongated velocity stacks inside I think you'll end up with useless volume but the larger volume in general will add a lot more forgiveness in my experience. If you wanted to reconsider ITB's I've used the ones off newer GXSR's (750's or 1000's) with great success. And you can buy a set of 4 for <$200.
Anyways, good luck with the build. Like everyone else I definitely want to see what the finished project ends up like :-)

[Scania]

Do you have a build thread to your M66 swap ? While I think you have the right idea, 2nd turbo kicking in where the 1st drop's off . . . . I don't think your manifold is going to allow it. Best of Luck with it tho !

Have you had the car on the road since the trans swap ?

[TurboTim]

I should have more pics up soon. I found a way to fit both turbos and close the hood...that was a problem before. I guess we will have to see how this works when I am done. Whatever happens I still had fun with it and I think its a good idea. Hey at least I tried something cool and different. If you have seen some of my other builds I never do anything that anyone else has done and so far I have not failed yet. So for all the doubters I guess we will have to see. Search about other compound setups as they do exist and do may awesome power.

Gideon35T, on 27 November 2011 - 05:21 PM, said:

Due to turbo size issues + manifold design: I think the power curve is going to be shaped like an "M" and be a nightmare for a tuner ...
I'm all for people doing new and unique things ... but don't you think this is unnecessary? A properly sized turbo or a variable vane would yield much better results. Or if you wanted to go really unique you could have ditched the turbos and found a used centrifugal supercharger.
I do like the custom intake manifold though. Due to the elongated velocity stacks inside I think you'll end up with useless volume but the larger volume in general will add a lot more forgiveness in my experience. If you wanted to reconsider ITB's I've used the ones off newer GXSR's (750's or 1000's) with great success. And you can buy a set of 4 for <$200.
Anyways, good luck with the build. Like everyone else I definitely want to see what the finished project ends up like :-)

Why would you think there is going to be any drop in the power. The first turbo stays spooled the whole time. Its just once it gets to its full boost less and less goes through it. Just like a wastegate would bypass a single turbo setup. You understand on the exhaust. the small turbo and big turbo are in series there is just a diverter that bypasses it as is spooled. It isnt fully bypassed until the second turbo come on.

[claymore]

call this I'm still verry interested in this project, but I don't think you can call it compound charged,(mine is compound charged) the second turbo isn't compressing the charge out of the first turbo (compounding) I would call this twin charged.

EDIT:


I'm still very interested in this project, but I don't think you can call it compound charged,(mine is compound charged) the second turbo isn't compressing the charge out of the first turbo (compounding) I would call this twin charged.

EDIT:


I'm still very interested in this project, but I don't think you can call it compound charged,(mine is compound charged) the second turbo isn't compressing the charge out of the first turbo (compounding) I would call this twin charged.

[thewhiteguy1]

TurboTim, on 28 November 2011 - 05:52 AM, said:

Why would you think there is going to be any drop in the power. The first turbo stays spooled the whole time. Its just once it gets to its full boost less and less goes through it. Just like a wastegate would bypass a single turbo setup. You understand on the exhaust. the small turbo and big turbo are in series there is just a diverter that bypasses it as is spooled. It isnt fully bypassed until the second turbo come on.

that dudes an idiot. he had hood pins on his s60.... (self explanatory) pay him no mind.

[TurboTim]

Well sorry I dont have any new pics from last week. My Eye Fi card will not load up my pics to picasa web and I just never get the time to upload them manually. I blew up a friends talon this week so we are doing the weekend 4G63 to 4G64. So going from a 2.0 to 2.4. There is so much stuff in this engine comportment. Here are some pics though.
Here is the motor out

Here is the donor motor and stripping it down to block.

So we remove the head so we can put the stock DOHC head on.

Sorry no new volvo pics. I promise I will get them up soon though.

[URO_S60]

Poor Talon, I miss mine dearly, I had stroked 4G63 setup and a 20G at 24psi back in '07 by far the best and most fun car I've probably ever driven. Got a 11.27 out of it on 21psi.

Wish these Volvos were as easy to throw mods at (and as cheap).

[TurboTim]

URO_S60, on 04 December 2011 - 01:13 PM, said:

Poor Talon, I miss mine dearly, I had stroked 4G63 setup and a 20G at 24psi back in '07 by far the best and most fun car I've probably ever driven. Got a 11.27 out of it on 21psi.

Wish these Volvos were as easy to throw mods at (and as cheap).

I know I could spend 2 times as much on my volvo only to make half as much. It sucks!

[Jardim]

Yeah but this doesn't happen



Lol jokes jokes, i dont think the 4G64 is prone to that anyway. You do see more T5's than GSTs or GSXs in my area though.

[SlapShot]

Sounds like a sweet project OP. Have you read about how Porsche setup the 959? This is just a scan of the sales brochure but it explains the process decently well...albeit a bit small.

[URO_S60]

Totally agree with you on the fact that power comes very cheap in the DSM realm but I love all the comfort of the Volvos (hmmm how much would it cost to throw a 4G63(6 bolt) in a mid 90's 850??? lol)

And yes the Crank walk fail pic is true only of the 7 bolt 2nd gen engines, Which everyone knows not to modify them anyways.

[Jardim]

Evo 3 Engines are mint.

[lookforjoe]

TurboTim, on 21 November 2011 - 04:04 AM, said:

Hope this helps
Time is alway a problem with me.

enough of the digressions. Need more input on this^ it's been at least 3 weeks....

[claymore]

Seems to be a long wait for updates

[Tommy.]

I am very interested in your project.... been lurking here for a bit and wanna see what you have in store!