20 replies to this topic

[-Matt01]

Finally i was able to complete my research to swap out the nivomats and have a normal ride height on my 850 AWD using regular OEM shocks. It would be the same procedure for any AWD 97 to 99.

Basically you buy shocks part #9461631
at 85.31 each it costs alot cheaper than 286$ for a nivomat. These WILL BOLT DIRECTLY INTO PLACE.
http://www.fcpeuro.c...70-awd-marked-8

If you install those without changing your springs the springrate will be way too soft and the car will sag.. Alot!
Meaning it will look like this in the back:


The next step is to buy the correct springs. This is where it gets unknown. Thanks to this site i found springs from a c70AWD that came from the factory without nivomats. I verified the chassis code as "2" on this car AWD. "2" means no nivomat, therefore the car had the shocks that i had, and the springs i needed. Short of going to europe this was the best I could do, AWD non-nivo cars are hard to come by around here. I bought them, and just installed them. THE PART is #9203935 and can be bought BRAND NEW at a dealer for about 160$ a pop. Or you can source them used like I did. They give the car almost the AWD height and a better spring rate, although still Volvo soft ( I would assume the C70 is lighter than my wagon, or wasnt meant to be as high) but it reminds me like a stock 850 height. This is what it lookes like:

front (with AWD springs)

Back with (c70 AWD and above shocks)


I'll update in the daytime with better pictures, it'll be more clear, Im glad that i finally gathered my thoughts on the matter and was able to complete the writeup. Basically what I'm going to do is swap in stock 850 springs in the front (14mm lower) so that it'll look just like a stock volvo wagon and equal( no saaaaag) as my "winter mode". Best of all NO MORE NIVOS!
You can save alot of money. Let me explain. Nivomats @ 286x2 = 572$ :: whereas non-nivo's 85$ x2 = 170$ + 160x2 = 490$!! if you buy brand new! Much more to be saved if you want to do some junkyard searching!
Any q's let me know.
Good Luck
-Matt01

[Big Will]

Matt - good information and it will help a lot of folks as they make the decision of whether or not to stick with nivomats.

However, where are you getting this mythical C70 "AWD"?? There's no such car in the US or in Europe...at least not produced by Volvo.

[-Matt01]

i meant S70.... sorry i wasnt too concerned about that, i was busy ensuring my part #'s were good and such

[Big Will]

Thanks man - makes sense.

[burnout8488]

If anyone needs the shocks BNIB hit me up!

Matt01 converted to non-nivomat using my old springs, and I converted to Nivomats using cut V70 AWD springs on my sedan. (Removed AWD and rear diff, 200lbs less weight in the rear and had to cut em!)

I've never seen an S70 AWD in the junkyard but I'll keep an eye out in case anyone else is keen on doing the non-nivomat conversion! They're a good bit stiffer than the wagon springs. (And jacked the tail of my car up in the air considerably, at least 2" over stock when the AWD components were removed)

[Martin850AWD]

Hello,

good job!
I want to do the same but couldn't finde the shocks in Germany so far. Even Sachs doesn't know them. Is this a special made for the US-Market?

CU
Martin

[Dan A]

Can someone measure the spring diameter with a caliper and post a pic of the spring? I've not been able to find any info on these springs, so well done! I presume you could run these springs with different shocks, like koni yellows with and adapter for the bottom shock mount? Can you describe the ride a little more? Does it bottom out on the bump stop when going over speed bumps? How does it compare to the ride when you ran the nivos?

[-Matt01]

Martin850AWD, on 10 January 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Hello,

good job!
I want to do the same but couldn't finde the shocks in Germany so far. Even Sachs doesn't know them. Is this a special made for the US-Market?

CU
Martin

read more carefully, i put a link to the shocks in the first post. Anything we have in NA you have in europe and alot more!

Dan A, on 11 January 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

Can someone measure the spring diameter with a caliper and post a pic of the spring? I've not been able to find any info on these springs, so well done! I presume you could run these springs with different shocks, like koni yellows with and adapter for the bottom shock mount? Can you describe the ride a little more? Does it bottom out on the bump stop when going over speed bumps? How does it compare to the ride when you ran the nivos?

at the stock height, why would it bottom out anywhere? The rear is very soft ( the way it was meant to be at the factory ) If i were to stand on the rear bumper and bounce the car up and down it would move significantly, but it drives very well. My car when i bought it never had nivos so i cant comment.
Yes you can get the rear mounts for the konis or any shock you'd like. I could get the measurements of another rear AWD spring

thats an ohlins volvo AWD spring next to a nivomat AWD spring

[Dan A]

In the past I've tried various things to get rid of the nivo's and use koni yellows but I could not get the right spring/shock combo.  I've tried various spring rates back there.  So I'm curious as to an accurate measurement of diameter of the non-nivo springs and a picture so that I can calculate approx what the spring rate is.  The ohlins would be great to measure as well, just for curiosity.

And you're right, with as much height as you have, I would doubt you'd ever hit the bump stops.   When I was experimenting with different springs, I was also trying to lower the car.  No matter how stiff the spring, I'd still hit the stops going over speed bumps on the rebound. My guess is that the shocks just weren't up to it.

[-Matt01]

the ohlins are for nivomats so no good for me.

The way i figure it, if your AWD is still there, it needs like a 600 spring rate or more. The rear end is all over the place. Stock is like 300 with nivo's or maybe like 400 without nivos, I know the info is out there somewhere, i don't remember.
Im going to find the springs we need next summer, i'll find the right one.

p.s. the ohlins are sooo soft.. not much better than stock

[Big Will]

-Matt01, on 11 January 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

p.s. the ohlins are sooo soft.. not much better than stock

You are talking about the AWD lowering springs made by Öhlins meant for their rear shocks or are you saying that the Öhlins suspension itself is too soft? If you mean the spring that's probably because it's meant to be used specifically with their shocks developed for the Volvo.

[NEU]

-Matt01, on 11 January 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

read more carefully

Hello Pot this is Kettle...

Dan A, on 11 January 2012 - 04:36 AM, said:

So I'm curious as to an accurate measurement of diameter of the non-nivo springs and a picture so that I can calculate approx what the spring rate is. The ohlins would be great to measure as well, just for curiosity.

The stock Nivo springs and TME Nivo springs are both 12mm, 10 coils on the stock, 8 on the TME Nivos. The Ohlin springs are 13.5mm and 10 coils (Thanks Will for getting me that measurement years ago ). All of them are linear springs. The TME Ohlins springs that are no longer made are progressively wound and were 13.5mm too, I no longer can find pictures of them to know how many coil turns they have, or over all height of the springs, but I'd assume they are equal to there TME Nivo height to get car to sit lower.

-Matt01, on 11 January 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

the ohlins are for nivomats so no good for me.

The way i figure it, if your AWD is still there, it needs like a 600 spring rate or more. The rear end is all over the place. Stock is like 300 with nivo's or maybe like 400 without nivos,

Ohilns springs are not for Nivos, they are for Ohlin/Volvo shocks. And a 600 spring rate is WAY too much! Hussien is going to be using a 350-400 spring rate for his Kaplhenke coil overs. http://volvospeed.co...ost__p__2055576 Also stock Nivo spring rate is much less then 300 since they don't do the heavy lifting, I don't recall if anyone has ever figured out what the rate is for them.

[Dan A]

Yeah 600 is too much.  I think I calculated the stock R nivo springs to be around 225 or so. But your measurements posted would put them near 250.  In any case I think that's about the right ballpark.  I've tried springs up to about 450# and boy was that a stiff ride.

I always suspected it was the shocks I couldn't get right. If Hussein is getting 350-400 springs then that proves it because I already tried those rates mated with off the shelf koni yellows.  The difference is the custom valving that Ben had Koni make for him.  I wonder if Ben would be willing to sell just the shocks.  I still have the springs I used.

[NEU]

Remember Hussein wants to limit the rear end from squatting when he launches so for his needs he'll want the stiffer spring rate.

Making lower mounting brackets shouldn't be too hard. You just need to get some heavy duty "L" brackets to mount thru the lower eyelet of the shock. Or have a shop make it for you and it doesn't have to be made of aluminum.

So did you mount shocks? Or did you use the 450 spring rate with Nivos?

[Dan A]

Shocks - Koni yellows.  I had a local welder make some adapters on the lower mount for about $20.  Ugly but functional and strong.

[-Matt01]

NEU, on 12 January 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

Hello Pot this is Kettle...


The stock Nivo springs and TME Nivo springs are both 12mm, 10 coils on the stock, 8 on the TME Nivos. The Ohlin springs are 13.5mm and 10 coils (Thanks Will for getting me that measurement years ago ). All of them are linear springs. The TME Ohlins springs that are no longer made are progressively wound and were 13.5mm too, I no longer can find pictures of them to know how many coil turns they have, or over all height of the springs, but I'd assume they are equal to there TME Nivo height to get car to sit lower.


Ohilns springs are not for Nivos, they are for Ohlin/Volvo shocks. And a 600 spring rate is WAY too much! Hussien is going to be using a 350-400 spring rate for his Kaplhenke coil overs. http://volvospeed.co...ost__p__2055576 Also stock Nivo spring rate is much less then 300 since they don't do the heavy lifting, I don't recall if anyone has ever figured out what the rate is for them.

ya, what it meant was that yes, ohlins has there own shocks, but they would work much better with nivos than with shocks,

Dan A, on 12 January 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

Yeah 600 is too much. I think I calculated the stock R nivo springs to be around 225 or so. But your measurements posted would put them near 250. In any case I think that's about the right ballpark. I've tried springs up to about 450# and boy was that a stiff ride.

I always suspected it was the shocks I couldn't get right. If Hussein is getting 350-400 springs then that proves it because I already tried those rates mated with off the shelf koni yellows. The difference is the custom valving that Ben had Koni make for him. I wonder if Ben would be willing to sell just the shocks. I still have the springs I used.

that's good to know, if rear shocks for nivos are around 225, then personally id double that for regualar shocks, 450, thats ME though i dont want any bounce. These cars are well balanced, almost 50-50 if i recall, so you should be able to put the same spring rate in the front as in the back. whats IPD's springs spring rate?

Dan A, on 12 January 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

Shocks - Koni yellows. I had a local welder make some adapters on the lower mount for about $20. Ugly but functional and strong.

ya, i tried to make brackets for my rear Koni's but my cheapo design didnt work, i might try and figure out a shop that might like to make them for me for a small price.. 20$ is worth every penny.

[Jardim]

Dan A, on 12 January 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

Shocks - Koni yellows. I had a local welder make some adapters on the lower mount for about $20. Ugly but functional and strong.

Please elaborate...is it something that could take a beating without the adaptors crapping on me? Thinking about getting a AWD for a daily and this would be a nice mod to do

[NEU]

Dan A, on 12 January 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

Shocks - Koni yellows. I had a local welder make some adapters on the lower mount for about $20. Ugly but functional and strong.

How did you have the Konis set? I've read that Koni Sports are underdamped for 350-400lbs springs on 240 Volvos. And were you using 450lb springs in stock length or lowered length? And what was your front strut/coil set-up?

I probably won't swap my Nivo any time soon for shocks only because I use my wagon to haul heavy loads on a regular basis. I might upgrade my springs only because the TME Nivo springs are a bit soft for my taste, but I love the lowered ride height. I think a 275-300lb spring might work well with the Nivos without being to harsh or jarring ride. I used to run IPD overload springs and Bilstein HDs on my 245 and those spring rates are 290lbs.

And what formula did you use to figure out the rate? I tried figuring it out for the TME Nivo and the Ohlins springs, but math was not my strongest of subjects as a youth...

[Dan A]

My memory sucks and this was about 3 years ago.  LOL.  The Konis were set at fullest firm setting (I started with softer settings).  I talked to someone at Koni and he thought the shock would be able to handle it but it felt almost like I was riding on springs only.  I remember my brother commenting on the same too.  I had them lowered in the back and I think the fronts were still stock at the time.  

I kept progressing to stiffer springs until I was over 400#.  Every time I'd go over a speed bump in a parking lot, it felt like the springs compressed as it went over the bump, but then sprung up almost undampered shooting the car up, then slammed back down on the bump stops.  Hope that description makes sense.  Stiffer springs with shorter travel kinda helped, but I think it was really a problem of the shocks because even at over 400# it would still get slammed down.  I guess my current TMEs and Nivos sort of do that on really big speed bumps, but nothing like the others I was experimenting with.

As far as calculations, spring steel has a certain constant and it sounds like the material used is pretty much standard across different makers of coil springs.  There are lots of spring rate calculators on the interwebz where you just input spring thickness, I.D. of the wound coil (3") and how many coils, in order to calculate spring rate for linear springs.  

Eibach makes 3" coilover springs in various rates and lengths, which is what I used to experiment with.  The diameter makes for perfect fit, but I had to cut coils to the exact ride height I wanted.

225# I mentioned was going from my poor memory and I may be off.  I still have my stock R springs.  Maybe this weekend I'll measure them up again.  As far as the adapter, it was really a rough prototype.  It was basically some steel bar (maybe 3/8) that was cut, welded and drilled.  He said it would be plenty strong (the welds are stronger than the steel itself), but I didn't have any weather protection on the steel, as they were meant just as temporary mock ups.  I still have them somewhere in the parts bin.

I still have most of this in my parts bins.  I'm not sure what springs I still have, but I know I've got the big ones still.  I'll try to take pics this weekend if I get a chance.  The 400#+ springs I had are really thick compared to stock!

[-Matt01]

Dan A, on 13 January 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

My memory sucks and this was about 3 years ago. LOL. The Konis were set at fullest firm setting (I started with softer settings). I talked to someone at Koni and he thought the shock would be able to handle it but it felt almost like I was riding on springs only. I remember my brother commenting on the same too. I had them lowered in the back and I think the fronts were still stock at the time.

I kept progressing to stiffer springs until I was over 400#. Every time I'd go over a speed bump in a parking lot, it felt like the springs compressed as it went over the bump, but then sprung up almost undampered shooting the car up, then slammed back down on the bump stops. Hope that description makes sense. Stiffer springs with shorter travel kinda helped, but I think it was really a problem of the shocks because even at over 400# it would still get slammed down. I guess my current TMEs and Nivos sort of do that on really big speed bumps, but nothing like the others I was experimenting with.

As far as calculations, spring steel has a certain constant and it sounds like the material used is pretty much standard across different makers of coil springs. There are lots of spring rate calculators on the interwebz where you just input spring thickness, I.D. of the wound coil (3") and how many coils, in order to calculate spring rate for linear springs.

Eibach makes 3" coilover springs in various rates and lengths, which is what I used to experiment with. The diameter makes for perfect fit, but I had to cut coils to the exact ride height I wanted.

225# I mentioned was going from my poor memory and I may be off. I still have my stock R springs. Maybe this weekend I'll measure them up again. As far as the adapter, it was really a rough prototype. It was basically some steel bar (maybe 3/8) that was cut, welded and drilled. He said it would be plenty strong (the welds are stronger than the steel itself), but I didn't have any weather protection on the steel, as they were meant just as temporary mock ups. I still have them somewhere in the parts bin.

I still have most of this in my parts bins. I'm not sure what springs I still have, but I know I've got the big ones still. I'll try to take pics this weekend if I get a chance. The 400#+ springs I had are really thick compared to stock!

If you have those eibach 400 springs and are willing to sell, let me know!! 400' are in the ballpark what im looking for.

http://www.kaplhenke...id=86&Itemid=32
look through that page, the adapters are there, he made a rough version of those, yes, they can take any beating.
--When i had my konis on, i didnt notice any difference, but because i was still using nivo springs.. I used Koni's off of a 850 FWD. Fits nicely.