19 replies to this topic

[s_moneh]

ok so like 3 out of 5 cop's have cracked on me and 1 of them is giving me a misfire in boost, if i lay easy i get nothing but once mashing on it +10psi i get a hardddd misfire and rpm's vary i can get it at 2k, or 5500 its always different

i'm just wondering what options are out there that are a better then OE replacement.
i'm using 960 coils on an 850 valve cover, so right away they arent made for that valve cover, but i make do!

would using like s60R coils have any impact on it? i know IPD has those HD ones but i'm not too sure if they would work any suggestions?

[jnderr]

I think the newer style colis are a 4 pin type coil that has its own igniter where as the 960 setup is a 2 or 3 pin style coil that uses a separate igniter.

Using this thread for reference: http://forums.turbob...ad.php?t=126892

Looks like there might be issues running the newer style coils and would require some changes to your MS setup.

[Johann]

What's your dwell setting and which igniters are used?

[s_moneh]

i'm not sure on either of those answers Johann

however jnderr posted up some great info and i defiantly do not want to go through that, dont have the time so i may swap out for the same coil packs and solder in an ignition capacitor i think its called to send a better signal for some spark

thanks guys

[Johann]

You have these in your setup,



Should be 2 of them. Bosch branded. From the info I can find they are smart ignition modules and handle dwell time themselves. From other info it appears that MS needs a duty cycle setting for these type of ignition modules.
Also the modules should be mounted on a cooling plate.

If you change to later '99 type coils the module is integrated in the coil and 3 wires are used, ground, power and a low level signal which is the same wire which runs to the ignition module for each cylinder in the 960 setup.
When using these coils a dwell time needs to be set for the coils and should be something near 2 milliseconds. For a single or double coil setup a dwell time near 3 milliseconds often is used but is to long for the Volvo Cop coils.

[Fishey]

I personally would just make correct wires and build a bracket to run Coil Near Plug..

I have done that very sucessfully in the past with BMEP IGN-1A Coils on RX7's and others.. I have used LSx Coils as well but the BMEP coils do have a bit more zap!



600+ WHP Rx7 we ran them without issue!

[s_moneh]

thats too much work for mee to do on a college students budget and time aha, but i ended up getting a replacement coil and made it work.

i ended up pulling the plug on each coil pack while the motor was running and found out my 5tth cyl pack did the least change during idle so i replaced that coil pack and bam she runs beautifuly now

[BlackBeast]

Don't get it, what's wrong with the good old distributor cap and HT leads?

[s_moneh]

no1 said anything was wrong, theres many options u can choose and this is one i went with

[BlackBeast]

Ok, let me word it another way, why go to the expense of fitting expensive COP coils when a distributor cap and rotor work perfectly well and are fairly cheap items to replace? It doesn't make sense to me.

[Fishey]

BlackBeast, on 22 January 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

Ok, let me word it another way, why go to the expense of fitting expensive COP coils when a distributor cap and rotor work perfectly well and are fairly cheap items to replace? It doesn't make sense to me.

Well, opening gap with a better ignition system makes alot of sense for alot of reasons. Basically allows you to pull timing and still get a full burn. This is very good thing for many reasons. The factory ignition system sucks ass and yes you can improve it with a better coil and a CDI Box but the benifits of CNP or COP are many.

[mdlimy]

andrij, few things to note here, the 960 coils you are using right now last a hell of a lot longer than the newer me7 coils but then again i dont have experience with the ipd hd packs.
honestly im not sure how you would setup the me7 coil packs but right now you should have a power wire already ran to the coils, so if you just chop off the existing plugs run that power wire to the correct pin on the me7 plug, you can ground all the coils straight to the valve cover if it is grounded properly, then just repin the existing coil signal wire at the ms box. Only thing is i have no idea what pin you need to repin it to, nor do i know how to setup the ms to run integrated driver coils. but thats what the manual is for, or just email matt cramer(thats what i would do =p)
But if you do plan on switching to me7 plugs plan on just buying ipd ones right away, i crapped out 4 oem me7 coils within the first month of running the vems.

[mdlimy]

Johann, on 21 January 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

You have these in your setup,



Should be 2 of them. Bosch branded. From the info I can find they are smart ignition modules and handle dwell time themselves. From other info it appears that MS needs a duty cycle setting for these type of ignition modules.
Also the modules should be mounted on a cooling plate.

If you change to later '99 type coils the module is integrated in the coil and 3 wires are used, ground, power and a low level signal which is the same wire which runs to the ignition module for each cylinder in the 960 setup.
When using these coils a dwell time needs to be set for the coils and should be something near 2 milliseconds. For a single or double coil setup a dwell time near 3 milliseconds often is used but is to long for the Volvo Cop coils.

actually his setup uses five individual bosch bip373 drivers inside the ms box. dwell time also needs to be setup with these.
So contrary to what i previously posted, the only way to change to intigrated driver coilpacks would require bypassing the drivers inside the box and then making the appropriate changes to the software.

So andrij if you really wanted to do this your easiest solution would be to email matt and tell him what you want to do and then just send the box to him and he could do the mods to the board....unless you want to break out the soldering iron =p
My opinion, buy some good used 960 coils and just replace them when they crap out =p those coils have lasted since i had them on my car and i ran them for like probally a year i would think, a few months of which the car ran 17psi at 302whp in fact i think i have some spare coils...pay shipping and they are yours bud.

[s_moneh]

yea i ended up finding the bad coil, replaced it with a newer style 960 one and shes good now. switching to the me7 coils is too much work for me at the moment and i'm not down to test at this very moment aha. however if u do have spares i would gladly take them off ur hands as spares

thanks for all the info too!

[s_moneh]

god damn it, its still not fixed she starts to miss fire at 4 psi so u know its bad fmll

Edited by s_moneh, 23 January 2012 - 06:45 PM.

[mdlimy]

s_moneh, on 23 January 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

god damn it, its still not fixed she starts to miss fire at 4 psi so u know its bad fmll

Plugs? u can do a data log and composite log at the same time then when u see the misfire on the data log go to around that point on the composite log and see if you are losing ign sync, that would rule out a an iffy cam or crank sensor and wiring to them.

[s_moneh]

plugs were new, i'm goin to regap them today and see wat happens, my next move is to 1 by one start switching the coils out for diff ones.

as far as the ign syncing goes, i actually had to replace my cam pos sensor so thats been done, and the crank sensor was new, so syncing isn't the issue i may run the logs anyway just in case and see wat happens

the exact feeling i had wen i did this was 5th gear cruising and i needed to pass someone, drop to 4th and the second i mashed on the throttle it felt like i hit a brick wall, then i coasted up to my street and said screw it 2nd gear pull, i reached 5 psi and same feeling hitting a brick wall grrr

[NEU]

s_moneh, on 20 January 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

would using like s60R coils have any impact on it? i know IPD has those HD ones but i'm not too sure if they would work any suggestions?

IPD and R coil are fairly close in output when comparing them to non R coils. HD=18%, R=15%. If you run R coils the boot needs to be changed from a non R version and contact spring inside needs to be stretched out to work as the R uses taller plugs.

http://volvospeed.co...ost__p__1810625

[mdlimy]

s_moneh, on 23 January 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

plugs were new, i'm goin to regap them today and see wat happens, my next move is to 1 by one start switching the coils out for diff ones.

as far as the ign syncing goes, i actually had to replace my cam pos sensor so thats been done, and the crank sensor was new, so syncing isn't the issue i may run the logs anyway just in case and see wat happens

the exact feeling i had wen i did this was 5th gear cruising and i needed to pass someone, drop to 4th and the second i mashed on the throttle it felt like i hit a brick wall, then i coasted up to my street and said screw it 2nd gear pull, i reached 5 psi and same feeling hitting a brick wall grrr

What did the afrs look like?

[s_moneh]

it happens to quick for me to have a look at what it says, usually out of instinct i'd clutch in and as soon as i do i read 17's when it happens, and it happens so random its hard to keep track