4 replies to this topic

[Bah]

So...this is gonna suck but here is the deal:

93 volvo 850, broke timing belt.
Bent Valves.
Got a 98 s70 head with one broken spring.
Replaced broken spring.
Resurfaced Head.
Put Head on.
Put non-VVIS intake manifold on.
Removed EGR (currently isn't plugged on exhaust manifold)
Got new hard fuel lines in the front of the car, new fuel rail and fuel regulator.
New timing belt components etc..
Timing is off ~1 tooth(not sure if i retarded or advanced. I hope i advanced since i have on the exhaust) and lets say ~1 tooth on the intake(it's probably dead on, but benefit of the doubt).
Car has 2.5inch cat+back exhaust.
No interference felt when hand cranked after timing belt install.
Serpentine belt is NOT on.
Wiring on the car is corroded on alot of connectors. Knock sensor pin fell out, but pretty sure i put it back in fine.
ECT sensor wiring on the harness side is pretty much crap. The ECT itself wiring was a bit frayed, but i did electrical tape to prevent shorts then taped it all up.
I did not mark the camshaft or distributor on the cam's, so i put those back on in what manner felt right. The distributor piece on the cam feels like it can only go one way, while the cam side i could see putting it on in 2 different manners.
the car RAN (it didn't stall etc, just a rough idle) before the belt broke. Car has been sitting since November. Before belt broke every component worked.
Plugs looked a bit fouled since i re-used them, they are plat +4's but the car ran with them before. I did not clean them before reinstalling, and the old head was thrown around for sure.


Which brings us to last night:
I finally got everything together. Went to start the car with the serpentine off, and the charger on the battery. Didn't have the ground tightened down, but it wasn't going anywhere (it had a good connection). Went to start the first time...starts chugging..then omfg loud (the cat is not 100% back on). It was *RUNNING* with my foot to the floor on the gas. The second i left off it lost all power and died. It got up in RPMs clearly, although i didn't see if the tach moved or not. The lights on the dash stayed on the entire time, but if i remember right that is due to not having the serpentine on? I poured some oil on the cams and tried again, knowing it probably isn't getting any oil to the top. If i just start it like normal it catches then dies immediately. If i keep foot to the floor, its loud and it will catch itself but i don't want to do this for an extended period of time due to the noise and potential damage to the engine. The second i try to feather it down the car just dies. It seems like it tries to keep alive but just doesn't get it.

At one point when i did it for an extended period at the high rpms, smoke/carbon/exhaust was coming out the non-bolted up cat, and the manifold was getting hot. This leads me to believe there is definitely spark and fuel?

I checked fuel at the rail after trying to start and the fuel squirts out.
This new fuel rail had these rubber spacers in the injector holes, so i left them there and put my injectors in with their respective O-rings on top as well. I don't see fuel squirting anywhere so i assume this is ok.
I put a new distributor on, but re-used the old cap. Like i said, the car ran before all this happened, so the wires and cap are hard for me to suspect.
Would the car act like this if the plugs were dirty?
Is it possible i have the cam 180 degrees out of time? Or would the car not even get up in RPMs if this was the case?
Will the car not start without the serpentine on? (i don't see why especially with the charger on the battery.)
Does this sound like low compression? Did i royally poke up and just waste hundreds of dollars on this car?
Does this sound like i just need to put oil in the cylinders? I don't understand how the car could build up RPMs if it had no compression, right? Or am i wrong to think this.
There was some corrosion on the cam and crank sensor connectors, are they potential suspects to this?
Would a bad ECT do this? Or would it not do anything with a bad ECT?

The IAC makes sounds, but i can pull the hose off and see if it is blowing air or not. If the IAC was dirty, wouldn't it idle with my foot on the gas somewhat and not just die?

With the timing off by that little bit, i figure the car should still be able to start right? or does this sound exactly like the timing needs to be fixed. I checked the back holes and tried to line up as best as possible, but on the exhaust i tried to go by the PO marks since i couldn't see the exhaust side head halves that clearly.

Thanks guys...i've got 2 weeks before i go back home. The car sounded strong as i tried to get it started. I haven't changed the oil yet in it since i wanted to see it run first. Does it sound like i somehow put the intake manifold on wrong? lol, not likely but i'm open to any suggestions.

[Gilhuly]

It sounds out of time to me. It takes surprisingly little to get these motors to not start at all and not experience interference. Get a good light and get the cams timed properly, put the serp belt back on. It'll start. Be sure the firing order/wires are correct (remember Haynes man is incorrect). Fuel, spark, air, timing. Don't do a compression test until you definitely have it timed properly. Don't make yourself crazy doing the same thing over if its not working. Be sure you're spraying fuel (not just fuel pressure), be sure you have spark. be sure you don't have masssive vac leaks and make sure you're in time.

[Bah]

Thanks Gilhuly! Feels good to have someone put some confidence in it. Definitely Appreciate!
I got some time to calm down and rethink it all over. I should definitely check and see how the timing is, and try and get it 100% in time. Eliminate that as a possibility. I put the cap back on with the wires in the same order, and checked real quick on my phone when i was doing it they were in the right order, but i will double check. Is there any special way to put the dist.cap back on, or does it only go on one way? I didn't take the wires off, but maybe i put it in at 120 degrees off and the wire diagram was the wrong one.

Also, when i put the intake manifold on, i apparently left the bolt for the lower bracket in the manifold itself(oops, thats what happens when you work on your car at 5AM and are tired). You can see some of the gasket above the manifold on the head, which i'm not sure if that is normal or not. I have a boost/vac gauge and a compressor, if i try starting it again and i put the gauge on the vac tree/manifold, i should see vacuum, even if it barely will run and stall out right? Or can i put a compressor to the front port on the manifold and search for air leaks somehow? The fact it dies so easily at idle reminds me of a vacuum leak, but there is just so many other things.

Once i check the timing and make the best effort to put it at 100% in timing or whatever the old marks were,and see just how far off it might actually be, i really think what little start it has now should improve. I really think it's got good compression, and it's gotta be getting some spark for it even to get up in RPMs. The only other more advanced thing i can think of, is that i put the cam sensor piece on backwards or the sensor itself backwards. If that was the case, and it is 180 degrees out of time to what the car thinks, would i get any catching? I suppose it wouldn't take more then 20 minutes to check this, but, i don't wanna just flip it if it clearly is on properly.

I'll put some oil in the cylinders too and get some clean plugs/get new ones, and with the timing gears at 100%, i imagine even if i did screw something up, that little bit might be enough to atleast get the car to stay running, since it atleast will rev up in its current state.

Diagnosing will start next weekend, and i'm sure i'll be checking back. Lets hope murphys law is wrong on this one.

[Bah]

So, got some time with the car today.

First things first, read what codes its giving me. Gave me 1-2-1 on A2. MAF code. A5 pin isn't even there, so i can't check ignition so w/e.
Tried starting with and without MAF, still same thing, just more agressive with MAF unplugged.

So, i hooked the vacuum/boost gauge. Nothing. Everytime i start it, it pulls MAYBE 1 inhg then ends. I even got my dad to get it to go with his foot on the gas enough to keep it pulling, but 0 vacuum change.

Next step, i checked timing. Turns out the intake was off 1 tooth, i lined up the crank(nearly 100% positive). Matched them up to the white marks of the PO to the engine, assuming that is correct. They are on 100% now.

Tried starting again, seemed worse then before lol. Still no vacuum.

I've been getting these whiffs of gas, and i'm not sure why, so any hopes on that.

Checked fuel pressure, the pump primes, fuel flows. Injectors might be clogged on one side, but even if that was the case, i would have vacuum right?...
Still don't have the serpentine on, but i don't think that's the issue. I should STILL have some vacuum on trying to startup right?

I cleaned the IAC, got the gate inside to spin freely now. Still same deal.
Cleaned spark plugs, they seemed fine.

I noticed when i took the plugs out, #1,2,3 all had carbon buildup.
#4 and #5 still looked like they did when i cleaned them!????

So i left the bolt in the intake manifold apparently( right below the PCV) , and i noticed i cant get the oil dipstick to bolt back up. I assumed this was because of non-vvis,but i don't think this is the case.

With zero vacuum, and the fact the car will turn on for a second then die, what are my options? The new FPR i put on holds vacuum (i sucked the hose yuck), so i ruled that out. I tried starting the car with the IAC not connected but i don't think i felt any vacuum then either. I checked almost all lines connected, even the brake booster. The port on the side has a plug on tight, the other port on front has a tight plug too.
I tried swapping the Cam Pos thing to 180 degrees out. Car wouldnt do stuff then.



Am i looking at 0 compression on 3 cylinders??? I also took the fuel injectors out, and put a compressor at their ports. I feel some air come through underneath the manifold, and the gasket doesn't feel like its on 100%, but not enough where i could see it being this bad a vacuum leak to not start. I'm gonna take the manifold off tomorrow and refit with that bolt out, but, how can i have 0 vacuum? If no compression causes this, should i put oil in the cylinders?

Thanks guys! I'm losing hope in this car, especially if it turns out this could be from 0 compression.....

[erikv11]

Zero compression has to be flooding i.e. yes try oil in the cylinders and crank a loonnnng time. Doesn't explain why it almost starts right now but whatever. That and reseat the IM gasket, it will be starting tomorrow! Maybe.