22 replies to this topic

[Uncle Boost]

-=2000 S80 T6=-

Is there a way to tell if the ECM has been updated? Maybe a Sticker or VIN search? Got an S80 and box of parts...put everything back together with a re-surf'd head, new HG, Timed, running, 120psi compression across the board, spark, fuel pressure is good, changed coils, The only thing i haven't done is change the plugs but have swapped them around and they all work...I have an issue with #5 despite the good vitals, seems to not affect the engine when the coil is disconnected while engine is running. Backfires occasionally, has a Mis and shakes @ Idle.. NO CODES at all..I have gotten Misfire codes but once cleared they don't return...all vacuum lines are in the proper location. Engine seems a little slow to respond like most Volvos. My 850 R is a world of difference comparatively.. I guess now my questions are since the car sat for so long un operable, does the ECM need to be Re-Coded or updated, and also how can I tell if ANY updates at all have been done to this Electronic nightmare... (Once I get the bugs out, I'm selling it) but I got it for less than a normal car payment. I followed the procedure for setting the V V T Hub, Locked Cams, torqued with Marks lined up as they should be...my Gears, Intake and Exhaust were dead nuts on the mark(s) but the hub bolts were mostly to the Left...like 1/8" inch from limit to the left. Do I need to center the hubs accordingly on the small hub bolts or let it ride? Can that be part of the problem is that even though the marks are aligned, that it can still be slightly out of timing or will the VVT correct the timing if its marginal... I wonder if the Throttle body can be partly the cause.... Baffling. sorry for the wordy post...Oh...it has those Platinum split fire plugs w/4 prongs....Are these the correct plugs for this engine? B6284 engine.

Thanks
-=UB=-

[Dan A]

What do you mean by "updated?" A yellow sticker on the ETM indicates it was replaced at some point. Software updates are internal. A Volvo dealer may be able to give you the update history based on your VIN. I'm not sure if anyone is going to give you that info over the phone. Someone with DICE/VIDA can also scan it and tell you what is currently loaded and do a sweep test. Are dealers doing free computer scans now?

Personally, I'd replace those plugs first with some copper cores. I believe the OEM plug is the same as the 850/X70 models. It doesn't sound etm related. But I'm kinda talking out of my ass since I have no personal experience with the S80 models LOL.

[Uncle Boost]

Dan A, on 27 January 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

What do you mean by "updated?" A yellow sticker on the ETM indicates it was replaced at some point. Software updates are internal. A Volvo dealer may be able to give you the update history based on your VIN. I'm not sure if anyone is going to give you that info over the phone. Someone with DICE/VIDA can also scan it and tell you what is currently loaded and do a sweep test. Are dealers doing free computer scans now?

Personally, I'd replace those plugs first with some copper cores. I believe the OEM plug is the same as the 850/X70 models. It doesn't sound etm related. But I'm kinda talking out of my ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD since I have no personal experience with the S80 models LOL.

Updated meaning either changed or whatever volvo does to it to correct their issues..THrottle Body ETM..Where is this sticker located you speak of? I was really speaking about the Cars Engine computer.. ECU?? ECM??? Does it retain memory even though it had no battery power for almost a year? I'VE heard of reflashing fixing ghost problems...

[Dan A]

The sticker can be seen when you look at the ETM under the intake manifold from the front of the car.  Data on the ECM is non-volatile, so it should not lose memory without power.  I think your issues are more basic, like those plugs to start. Or I guess I should stay, stick with the basics first.

[Uncle Boost]

Dan A, on 28 January 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

The sticker can be seen when you look at the ETM under the intake manifold from the front of the car. Data on the ECM is non-volatile, so it should not lose memory without power. I think your issues are more basic, like those plugs to start. Or I guess I should stay, stick with the basics first.

Ok... went for the 1st test drive today..absolutely zero power...easing the throttle or feathering it it did go and change gears...got up to 35 mph...but it was backfiring and sputtering...like it does not want to have anything to do with acceleration. I will double check my timing. It runs like it is not timed correctly but I get NO codes at all...and I g... ugh! I will beat this....I checked the cam marks, they line up everytime...the only time i got a code was when I turned the camshaft by taking the CPS cup off the back of the exhaust cam....this unloaded the VVT hub so when I had everything back together the code popped up..once I cleared it, it did not return until I got back into the driveway....Multiple misfires...So, I had to use my lift for my LS400 and it got dark on me...i'll post back this week.. THanks for your help.

I checked the ETM. No sticker at all except the OEM label etc. there is a little blue mark that looks like it may have been marked by a sharpie or something but no sticker. HOw long is this recall / Update thing Valid and how do I find out if I'm eligible?...

[S8ET6]

Uncle Boost, on 30 January 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

Ok... went for the 1st test drive today..absolutely zero power...easing the throttle or feathering it it did go and change gears...got up to 35 mph...but it was backfiring and sputtering...like it does not want to have anything to do with acceleration. I will double check my timing. It runs like it is not timed correctly but I get NO codes at all...and I g... ugh! I will beat this....I checked the cam marks, they line up everytime...the only time i got a code was when I turned the camshaft by taking the CPS cup off the back of the exhaust cam....this unloaded the VVT hub so when I had everything back together the code popped up..once I cleared it, it did not return until I got back into the driveway....Multiple misfires...So, I had to use my lift for my LS400 and it got dark on me...i'll post back this week.. THanks for your help.

I checked the ETM. No sticker at all except the OEM label etc. there is a little blue mark that looks like it may have been marked by a sharpie or something but no sticker. HOw long is this recall / Update thing Valid and how do I find out if I'm eligible?...

Are you sure that you've replaced the coils on the proper cylinders? Got all your vacuum lines attached? Including the hidden nipple under the intake manifold above the starter? Did you re- attach each ground cable? Are the sensors on the transmission plugged in? Does it start easy? Does it idle smoothly?

Also, did you replace the o2 sensors? If you had a blown head gasket then odds are you will need to replace the sensors on at least one bank

[Uncle Boost]

S8ET6, on 30 January 2012 - 05:00 AM, said:

Are you sure that you've replaced the coils on the proper cylinders? Yes...I've tested each coil and they all work.

Got all your vacuum lines attached?Yes they are connected properly.
Including the hidden nipple under the intake manifold above the starter?
Did you re- attach each ground cable?
Are the sensors on the transmission plugged in? .

Does it start easy? very easy like a normal Volvo.

Does it idle smoothly?

Also, did you replace the o2 sensors?
If you had a blown head gasket then odds are you will need to replace the sensors on at least one bank

Are you sure that you've replaced the coils on the proper cylinders? Yes...I've tested each coil and they all work.

Got all your vacuum lines attached? Yes they are connected properly.

Including the hidden nipple under the intake manifold above the starter? yes..all 3..the BOV, Turbo Regulator, and some other line but they are connected.

Did you re- attach each ground cable? yes, the one on the bottom, and the 2 two braided stranded gnd cables.
Are the sensors on the transmission plugged in? Yes, they were never unplugged... the transmission shifts fine, NO codes or blinking indicators except the Airbag SRS and the Service light.. Eventually I do get misfire code...Multiple misfires..

Does it start easy? very easy like a normal Volvo.

Does it idle smoothly? Yes and no...it doesn't fluctuate when idling as the idle is pretty stable but I have a skip in Cyl 5. 120 PSI compression, spark, and the injector works in this cylinder...I cannot understand why It misses for this cyl only. Could it be the Engine CPU that can cause it to skip? Could it possibly be in Limp mode? Crank sensor gunked up?

Also, did you replace the o2 sensors? This I have Not done yet. still original O2 sensors.

HOw can I tell if it is stuck in limp mode? Like I mentioned I brought this car back to life from a box of parts...the original owner said it was blowing steam out the exhaust...and it did have a BHG between Cyls 1 and 2... I have 5 extra coils, and a set of plugs I've tried in just this 1 cylinder, cyl #5, and removing the coil while its running has no effect on the idle like the other 5 do. weird...

[S8ET6]

Uncle Boost, on 30 January 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

Are you sure that you've replaced the coils on the proper cylinders? Yes...I've tested each coil and they all work.

You didn't answer my question... specifically, are you sure that the coil cable currently installed on cylinder 5 is for cylinder 5 and not switched with the coil cable from cylinder 6? Those two coil cables are easy to accidently switch if they weren't marked prior to removal.

Quote

Got all your vacuum lines attached? Yes they are connected properly.

And you checked them for cracks? How about the hard plastic piping over the motor? Did you check it for cracks? I had a serious leak from the 2 into 1 hose due to a large crack underneath it which was hidden by the worm clamp.

Quote

Did you re- attach each ground cable? yes, the one on the bottom, and the 2 two braided stranded gnd cables.

What about the 2 grounds in the wiring harness for the coils? Specifically, there is one in between cyl 5 and 6 which is the grounding point for those two coils. (and test it with a light to make sure that it still is grounded)

Quote

Also, did you replace the o2 sensors? This I have Not done yet. still original O2 sensors.

I'm still learning how the S80 handles o2 issues, but my car drives fine when the front o2s are offline - seems to refer to a default fuel mapping table and throws a code alerting me that there is a problem

Quote

HOw can I tell if it is stuck in limp mode?

Got a vacuum/boost guage installed? If so, what's the vacuum reading at idle and does it go into boost at all? Try touching the negative battery cable to the positive cable in order to reset the system. I'm thinking that you don't have any signs of codes yet because you haven't completed a drive cycle yet. but there could be some pending codes... do you have something to read the volvo specific codes? (Volvo codes are ECM-xxxx - not the generic ODBC codes like P0140)

This thread kinda sound like your problems: http://volvospeed.co...t/page__hl__maf - have you done a pressure or smoke test?

Also, is the thick power cable coming from up by the drivers side strut and going to the starter routed correctly? It's supposed to be attached to the head near intake cam cover. If you have it near the main wiring harness it could introduce interference.

... and change the plugs. I've had good results from NKG BKR7Es when I didn't feel like splurging on OEMs. Did you check the gap on the ones that you've got installed now?

I'm going to bed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Dan A]

If you had a vacuum leak, it would probably have to be a pretty big one to cause what you described. Like one of the intercooler hoses disconnected or ripped. What about a bad injector? Maybe swap with another cylinder and see if the problem moves. Know anyone with DICE/VIDA?

[Uncle Boost]

Dan A, on 30 January 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

If you had a vacuum leak, it would probably have to be a pretty big one to cause what you described. Like one of the intercooler hoses disconnected or ripped. What about a bad injector? Maybe swap with another cylinder and see if the problem moves. Know anyone with DICE/VIDA?

I tested the Injector and the coil circuit by letting the engine run with the coil connector plugged in with a spark plug attached..All the coils I have work, which means the circuit is working.. I also checked the injector by unplugging the other 5 injectors except Cyl 5. I had someone crank the engine over and the injector sprayed into a container I had set up.. so I guess this proves Fuel and Spark work...

[Uncle Boost]

S8ET6, on 30 January 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

You didn't answer my question... specifically, are you sure that the coil cable currently installed on cylinder 5 is for cylinder 5 and not switched with the coil cable from cylinder 6? Those two coil cables are easy to accidently switch if they weren't marked prior to removal. And you checked them for cracks? How about the hard plastic piping over the motor? Did you check it for cracks? I had a serious leak from the 2 into 1 hose due to a large crack underneath it which was hidden by the worm clamp. What about the 2 grounds in the wiring harness for the coils? Specifically, there is one in between cyl 5 and 6 which is the grounding point for those two coils. (and test it with a light to make sure that it still is grounded) I'm still learning how the S80 handles o2 issues, but my car drives fine when the front o2s are offline - seems to refer to a default fuel mapping table and throws a code alerting me that there is a problem Got a vacuum/boost guage installed? If so, what's the vacuum reading at idle and does it go into boost at all? Try touching the negative battery cable to the positive cable in order to reset the system. I'm thinking that you don't have any signs of codes yet because you haven't completed a drive cycle yet. but there could be some pending codes... do you have something to read the volvo specific codes? (Volvo codes are ECM-xxxx - not the generic ODBC codes like P0140) This thread kinda sound like your problems: http://volvospeed.co...t/page__hl__maf - have you done a pressure or smoke test? Also, is the thick power cable coming from up by the drivers side strut and going to the starter routed correctly? It's supposed to be attached to the head near intake cam cover. If you have it near the main wiring harness it could introduce interference. ... and change the plugs. I've had good results from NKG BKR7Es when I didn't feel like splurging on OEMs. Did you check the gap on the ones that you've got installed now? I'm going to bed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I really do appreciate your time and help on this believe me I do.....[You didn't answer my question... specifically, are you sure that the coil cable currently installed on cylinder 5 is for cylinder 5 and not switched with the coil cable from cylinder 6? Those two coil cables are easy to accidently switch if they weren't marked prior to removal. The way the harness is loomed, the #5 and #6 coil connector length is appropriate... I would have to really Stretch them for them to be crossed.

And you checked them for cracks?] I did check for cracked wires and connector plastic, double checking those today, but I have already tested the 5 coils I have (spares) with a spark plug attached and they all worked while the engine was running.

How about the hard plastic piping over the motor? Did you check it for cracks? I had a serious leak from the 2 into 1 hose due to a large crack underneath it which was hidden by the worm clamp. Yes I have checked that pipe that runs under the intake Manifold...looks Ok.

What about the 2 grounds in the wiring harness for the coils? Specifically, there is one in between cyl 5 and 6 which is the grounding point for those two coils. (and test it with a light to make sure that it still is grounded) Yes those 2 ground points are grounded.

Got a vacuum/boost guage installed? If so, what's the vacuum reading at idle and does it go into boost at all? No I don't have an external guage yet...once I get the engine corrected I will install one.

Try touching the negative battery cable to the positive cable in order to reset the system. I'm thinking that you don't have any signs of codes yet because you haven't completed a drive cycle yet. but there could be some pending codes... do you have something to read the volvo specific codes? (Volvo codes are ECM-xxxx - not the generic ODBC codes like P0140) . I only have the Actron 93xx? big dog reader...It only tells me the OBDII stuff..I don't have the Volvo Specific Code reader.. would love to have one.

Ihave you done a pressure or smoke test? I have only done a compression test...1-5 120 PSI, #6 Cyl has 125 PSI. How do I do a smoke test?

Also, is the thick power cable coming from up by the drivers side strut and going to the starter routed correctly? It's supposed to be attached to the head near intake cam cover. If you have it near the main wiring harness it could introduce interference. ...Yes it is routed correctly. i will try to take some decent photos.

and change the plugs. I've had good results from NKG BKR7Es when I didn't feel like splurging on OEMs. Did you check the gap on the ones that you've got installed now? It has those 4 prong Split tip Platinum plugs that were in the car when I got it. I have tried other plugs in this same cylinder (#5) but it still doesn't make a difference.. I am so frustrated ...I am at this point looking at the the Crank sensor...but I think i pulled the Engine speed sensor instead...(on the rear of the engine thats mounted to read the Flywheel) still looking for the Crank Angle sensor to OHM out.. But I don't get any Hard Codes except the Occasional Multiple misfire code, and Injector open ckt ONLY if i unplug stuff while its running.


UPDATE FOR TODAY...I have double checked my timing. All the marks, Crankshaft, and Both the Intake and Exhaust timing marks are on the Money. I checked UNDERNEATH the Manifold where that 60degree angled vacuum pipe is that is bolted to the underside of the Mani, and the center vacuum line was off..so I reattached it. I also Took the ETB? ETM? (Electronic Throttle Body) off and cleaned it as well as the Charge Pipe. No Boost or high pressure hoses are squishy or cracked... the hard plastic Charge hose had Some oil in it but not much...My 850 R has more oil inside the hoses than this S80 T6 had. I am in the process as I type, putting it all back together to see what I have now or if what i did made any difference. Just puzzling how you can have Spark, compression and fuel, yet have a dead cylinder...??.. weirdest thing I've ever seen...

Oh...Luckily, I was able to find another S80 T6 that was built Just a Month prior to the one I have... 11/99 and mine was built in 12/99. I got the ECM and the Tranny computer from the Junker. I swapped ECU's but it must be VIN locked because it wouldn't start the car. I was thinking well lets see if this ECM may work but nada. It cranked over but didn't start up. Put the original back in and it cranked, but still skipped (this was before I took off the TB and cleaned everything up.)

I'll post back tonight...
Thanks again for your help.

-=UB=-

[Dan A]

Yeah you can't swap ecu's. Its hard to help without being there but if I think of anything I'll post up. You know its gonna be something stupid LOL. Like the guy that posted about 6 months back that left a rag in the charge pipe LOL. In other words, stuff I would do.

[Uncle Boost]

Dan A, on 02 February 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

Yeah you can't swap ecu's. Its hard to help without being there but if I think of anything I'll post up. You know its gonna be something stupid LOL. Like the guy that posted about 6 months back that left a rag in the charge pipe LOL. In other words, stuff I would do.

Ha ha ha...Yeah I've been there too. Ok..update.. Put everything back together..i ohmed out the Engine speed sensor...like 120 ohms until you move a metal object across it since it appears to be magnetic, and the ohms fluctuate...so this tells me it probably is ok. I could not find the Crankshaft angle sensor...Where is it located? Anyway, Started the car up and it ran much smoother, but was still skipping... was started backfiring...like Pop...Pop.....smooth.......................then Pop Pop......pop.....Switched it off. Swapped #5 and #6 Coil connectors just to see if maybe they got crossed...it ran much worse.. Swapped them back. Restarted engine and ran for minute...then I noticed a Rotten Egg smell from the Cat(s) The Left cat was glowing like a sum b!tch! Whoa! W T Frack?!! I gave up after that....went for a cruise in my 855R....a WORKING Volvo!!!! I am so done!... I'll tackle it some more tomorrow.. running thin on patience..but I've been down this road before learning the 850 t5 (my wife's Volvo) when we 1st got it 8 years ago...so I'm gonna win one way or the other...just burned out with this right now..

How do you measure the Valve Clearance on the valves? I noticed some Torx screws for each valve what it appears...is this how you do this by sliding a feeler guage in there ??? and how can you tell if you are on the Heel of each Lobe? The only thing I can think of now is to check the valve clearance for #5...at least to ease my mind...They Aren't too tight where they are open all the time, and they don't Rattle as if there is too much clearance.. I've heard cars run that were a tooth or 2 off in timing despite the Marks being aligned on the crank and the gears...and this is exactly how this thing runs...not much power at all...idles a little rough due to the skip but not rough like a Vacuum line is off if you know what I mean.. No smoke, just vapor and condensation coming out the exhaust. but I have NEVER seen the Cat get red hot like it did..and it didn't do this before I took the throttle body off, cleaned it, and reinstalled it.

I tried to get a shot of the Crank aligned with the mark but couldn't get a good shot due to low cell battery...dang droid phone battery hog.. man what a day!

Here is the photos of the Exhaust Cog, Aligned with the mark.



Here is the Intake Cog with the Mark aligned

[S8ET6]

Ok, so the good new first... you've ruled out alot of small, easy to resolve issues.

A glowing convertor, hmmm. My guess is that either the convertor is clogged and needs to be replaced, or excessive fuel is being burnt in the convertor instead of the combustion chamber. Either way would/could explain why the car is running poorly. I guess that you could try disconnecting both DPs and see if the idle quality improves in order to rule out clogged cats. You can also hit them with a rubber mallet... if it sounds like there's something loose inside, then odds are the cat is bad (or going bad).

Let's use the term bank instead of left or right. Bank 1 is on the passenger side (cyl 1-3) and bank 2 is on the driver's side (cyl 4-6).
If your glowing cat is on bank 2, then that could be due to your "dead" cylinder #5 passing unburnt fuel into the exhaust. If it's on bank 1, then that could have been due to the BHG or it could be that you've got some bigger issues with the head, or exhaust issues too - possibly both.

The more that you describe your symptoms, the more it sounds like you may need to pull the head again. I don't remember... did you have the head checked?

Unfortunately, I think that you are discovering all of the reasons why that car sat in a state of disrepair for so long...

[Uncle Boost]

And that makes Hella sense....unburned fuel in #5 going into the cat...When i took the head to the shop he checked it for cracks and resurfaced it, new stem seals... Still can't figure why #5 isn't working though?? Man I hate this not knowing...1st chance i get i'll snag an engine...but usually these don't hit the yards unless the get Hit really bad, or Engine failure..Well mostly Transmission Failure leaving a good engine under the hat.. I hope... I've burned up enough time on this..Ima hit some indy shops and do some probing..I may be able to negotiate a cheap diagnosis..

Is there a way to test the ECM without it being in the car?

[Uncle Boost]

Question...when setting the VVT hub/ cam gear.....

1. Line up the Crank to the mark on the oil pump cover
2. Line up Intake cam to TDC (Mark on upper cover)
3. loosen VVT hub and the 3 outer bolts on the cog gear and rotate til limit (the 3 bolts)
4. Rotate VVT Center hub until it's 1.5 teeth from Mark.
5. Torque VVT hub to specs 88 ft/lbs
6. Rotate Cog until it bottoms out on the VVT Hub spring @ which point now the timing mark should line up with the Cover...(IS THIS WHERE THE TIMING BELT IS TO BE INSTALLED? WITH THE VVT HUB BOTTOMED OUT AGAINST THE SPRING and MARKS LINED UP ?)

I've read somewhere where you go 90 degrees PASS the timing mark on the crank, then back up to the marks, and they should line up?
So should the belt be put on with or without the VVT hub spring bottomed out?

[Uncle Boost]

SOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!! FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First of all THANKS DAN A, and S8ET6 for you help direction and thoroughness. I was hoping it was something minor and it was!
I feel like such an idiot.. but a Happy one!!!
Thanks for all the suggestions which really helped especially the one that about checking the Coil pack wires. What I didn't realize is that the #5 cylinder coil pack should have been installed 180 degrees as opposed to the other coil packs. I also saw fotos of this and was able to determine the correct color code for each cylinder. So at 3:09 am this morning, I went out into the shop and saw that I had the #5 connector plugged into the #4 coil pack an vice versa.. Since I received the car basically with a box of parts I had no way of knowing that the orientation of Cyl 5 coil back was reversed in order to accommodate the wire harness..SOLVED!!! after 3 months of working on this...the car runs great now. Thanks for all your help brothers...

-=UB=-

[S8ET6]

I'm happy to hear it. I was hoping that it was something as simple to resolve as that. How does the car drive?

[Uncle Boost]

S8ET6, on 06 February 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

I'm happy to hear it. I was hoping that it was something as simple to resolve as that. How does the car drive?

I have to fix a leak from the cooling line for the Tranny hose that plugs into the radiator..probably and O-ring...Once I'm done with that Test Drive!!! I'll post back...The engine runs smooth and quiet sitting here on the lift.
Like Day and Night from the way it was! Kudos man!

[Dan A]

Yay! See, totally something I would do