14 replies to this topic

[IkeaBox]

Hello everybody,
I've been lurking on the forums here for quite some time but this is my first time posting anything. I drive a 1999 S70 T5m and am working on doing some maintenance related things to hopefully get it ready for some mods in the near future.

The reason I'm posting is that this strange thing has happened a few times that i can't explain. I'll start up the car and drive around but it's like I have no throttle response. For example, short blips of the throttle when rev matching don't even register. After shifting it takes a few seconds of pretty much flooring the gas pedal to get it to do anything. It's like the first half of the pedal travel doesn't really do anything, and then it is noticeably weaker even when flooring it. Initially I thought it might be a vacuum leak somewhere but then I turned the car off and upon starting it again, everything went back to normal. Anybody have anything similar happen to them?

Also another unrelated thing I can hopefully get some help on. The car has been starting up pretty weak recently. Its always taken maybe 2 and a half to 3 seconds to crank since I've owned it but always started up reliably. Recently, I've had a few occasions where the car cranks but won't start on the first try. Got the battery, alternator, and starter tested at auto zone and only the test for the starter came up bad. However, I'm hoping it might just be an issue with the electrical connections, any good way of testing the major battery cables for wear? I'd like to give that a shot before diving in and replacing the starter. I figure that as long as it starts eventually, it might not be worth replacing the starter just yet. Could even just be the heat recently.

Any help is appreciated, a lot of you guys on here seem to really know what you're talking about and I'm just trying to get myself up to speed on car stuff.
Thanks

[Burn-E]

Sounds to me like your first set of symptoms are related to ETM failure. Look up Don's ETM room on M4tthews Volvo Site.

[JRL]

Or...a really messed up throttle sensor but I too lean towards the ETM

[Dan A]

For your question about testing battery cables, google voltage drop test

[IkeaBox]

I took a look at the etm forum on Matthews Volvo site and I don't have any of the other symptoms of etm failure. This morning the car cranked weak on the first try, started up the second try. On the way to the first light I was having the lack of throttle response. Restarted the car at the light and everything was normal. Turned it off and started it at work while it was warmed up as well and everything was good. Nothing else indicates a bad etm so at this point I'm just hoping its not that. Thanks for the voltage drop test idea, I'll try that out this afternoon

[JRL]

That ALL indicates a bad ETM
A failing ETM can result in very different symptoms

[Burn-E]

Jim is 100% right on this. You have a 1999 S70 so it's not a matter of if your ETM is failing it's a matter of how far gone it is. All of the symptoms you've describe relative to idle and acceleration are throttle related. Did you read George's post about the stages of failure?

http://www.matthewsv...hp?f=12&t=17252

He's got 500k miles on his 99 S70 so he's gone through a number of failed ETMs. The original Volvo design will fail. How many miles on your car? Are you the original owner? Has the ETM been replaced previously? Did they do the software fix? ( which is a poor band-aid to be honest).

[IkeaBox]

I didn't mean to seem thick, just wanted to be sure. Especially since it seems that a bad etm would set me back quite a few dollars.
My car is 1999 however I've only owned it for the last 8 months. I don't have any of the previous owners history records so I'm not sure of the recalls have been done or if the etm is original. So far the symptoms have been few and far between. It's only happened 3 times since I've owned the car it just so happens the last two times were back to back.
How slowly or quickly is the etm failing process? Is this something I can put on the back burner for a while, or should I start looking for a new etm? Are functional etm's easy to source?
I really appreciate all your help

[IkeaBox]

Also, I had read George's post about the stages of etm failure. And that's the source of most of my confusion. I haven't experienced the vast majority of items on that list. Idle is always normal and accelation has only been weird on these thre isolated instances. All of which have been corrected immediately by restarting the car.
I'm not saying it isn't the etm, I'm more than willing to admit you guys have more experience than I do. I just wanted to be clear about what's going on

[Dan A]

I just wanted to be clear about what's going on

As well you should. You should really have your car read for stored codes by someone with VIDA. You can do what I did when I suspected ETM issues and buy a cloned version of DICE/VIDA and do this yourself. I hear now that the cost has dropped to around $150 shipped. It was $250 when I bought it and it's worth it if you plan to keep your car running for a while. I just used it last week again to diagnose a very random no-start problem that I first thought was fuel pump related but now I know is an antenna ring issue. VIDA can also has a specific etm sweep test that can be performed.

Have you done your voltage drop test? If you have enough resistance in the cables and are delivering insufficient voltage to the etm and other components, you will have issues.

I agree that it is most likely etm and it will likely progress until it's undriveable, but I would want to make sure before spending the dough too. And FYI, look under your intake at the etm. If the label is white, then it's original. Yellow means replaced at some point. Yellows will go bad too though.

[IkeaBox]

This may be a silly question but will codes be stored even if no dash lights are present? I'll look into getting it scanned by someone or maybe just get a unit for myself.

I did the voltage drop test. The ground connection was good, no drop. And from the positive terminal to the main fuse box there was no drop whatsoever. However, from the positive terminal to what I think is the positive terminal on the starter, my voltmeter was reading about 350mV. Not sure if that is significant or if I even had the correct terminal on the starter. However I figured if i was connected to the ground then it should read the full 12.6 volts so I think it was correct. All of this was done with the car off. Should I be doing anything differently? Are there any other possible problematic areas to check?

About the etm, it has a yellow label so I guess that makes me feel a little bit better. Like I said, the issue really doesn't occur often so it could just be an intermittent issue with the wiring harness if i had to guess. Because that would explain the correlation between the inability to start and the etm acting up. Although maybe I'm just being optimistic and really I need a new starter unit and an etm. If it comes to that, how difficult is it to replace the starter? It doesn't look like there is much room without taking the intake manifold off. And what is a cost effective option for replacement etms? I was looking into xemodex and they seem pretty good on their website. Does anybody have any experiences with them or other options?

[Burn-E]

A new OEM ETM will fail just like yours is doing ... eventually (rate seems to be every 50 to 150k miles). Question is how long do you plan to keep the car? The xemodex unit is slightly more expensive but the point of failure has been removed / reengineered so it will not fail. Those are your two choices.

[burnout8488]

Any junkyards near you? Go and get all of the yellow label ETMs you can find. At $20-$40 apiece, you could use one per year (they might last 5 years each, you never know) and still be ahead of the game. Way better than spending hundreds on one unit. Nobody really mentions buying used ETMs, but they're a hugely inexpensive alternative to a new OEM or a Xemodex as long as you don't mind changing them out.

I found a few 2008 build ETMs at a local yard and they worked perfectly, and probably will for years to come. If I didn't sell them I'd give you dibs. Any 99-00 V70/S70, 99-04 C70, '99-'01 S80 ETM will work (Plug 'n Play) as long as they are from a turbocharged vehicle. An N/A ETM is the same part, but will need to be programmed at the dealer to work with a turbo car. Otherwise it will idle funky and not run right at all.

Edited by burnout8488, 15 July 2012 - 12:43 AM.

[Dan A]

Yes you can have stored codes without the check engine light lit. Especially with intermittent issues. You don't have a starter issue if it is cranking the motor. 350mv is a bit excessive I think, but I forget the specific acceptable range. I have a xemodex etm. I did have a problem with mine but it has a lifetime warranty and it was replaced free.

[IkeaBox]

I plan to keep the car as long as I can really. There are a few junkyards around and I was actually planning to look for a fog light set up from a junkyard volvo because it seems much cheaper than paying 140 for the lights and another 90 for the relay. While I'm at it I will keep an eye out for used ETMs. Good to know that the units are plug and play. Although if the xemodex units are good I like that idea just for the peace of mind that it won't go bad and that they would stand by their product. Just because with my luck all the units I would find at the junkyard are likely as bad as mine considering mine isn't even that bad yet.

I will check for stored codes as soon as I can then. And yeah I thought 350mV was a bit high myself, I should probably also double check that I was testing the correct terminal on the starter. The car does crank but according to auto zone the starter is bad, or at least below the acceptable level on their diagnosis tool. I'm still driving the car regularly without any major issues, but occasionally it will crank for 10 or so seconds with no sign of starting but then I'll stop and try again and it starts up. The only logical explanation I can come up with is that the wiring is bad or the starter is starting to go bad.