Tightmopedman9

Tuners Rejoice! Free Tuning For M4.4!

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On 12/1/2018 at 8:09 PM, bomb192uk said:

Seems there is a lot of fuelling maps to consider even when going to slightly bigger injectors. Starting to think an aftermarket ecu would be a better option?

Depends on the use case, but in my opinion an aftermarket ECU is a good alternative. I am going this route now and I like the 100% control you get over the engine. No maps you don't know or understand etc. Definitely has its advantages. But then again, M4.4 is also great.

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@German850R what aftermarket solution are you using, and how are you dealing with integration of other engine-related systems like the climate control/AC/emissions?

Edited by Boxman

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I will use Maxxecu Race on my 850. I already set this up in different vehicles with good success.

AC control has been done using VEMS before, so it's possible. Haven't spent too much thought on that yet as my 850 currently doesn't have AC anyways. Basically you can monitor the pressure sensor and based on certain conditions activate the coupling of the compressor. I have a full workshop manual for the AC only, so I guess I will figure that out when the time comes.

What do you mean with emissions exactly?

The car has still a cat, closed loop wideband lambda control etc. So it will easily pass an emissions test.

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I mean the emissions-related addons Volvo put on the car, such as the EVAP system that purges excess gas tank fumes. They're not required for operation of the engine, but did you just block them off entirely? Edit; nvm, i see you're planning to but haven't actually put it on an 850 yet.

Actually that''s the only additional system that comes to mind - nobody runs SAS or EGR on these cars.

Edited by Boxman

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I just wanted to do a little follow-up on the status of trying to make this work for my wife's '97 GLT AND keep the AC working. Long-ish post ahead, but there are some pictures. :)

Brief refresher on the project. We swapped out her tired engine with one from an '01 XC70 and added a 16T and blue injectors  to it. We just wanted to be able to have a little tuning room, and since the '97 GLT is an M4.4 ECU, I figured this would work.

Nope. While we can get '98 MY M4.4 ECUs to run in the car, the AC doesn't work. Without the "AC Mod" there would be no response to the AC command and with the "AC Mod" we would get an initial start of the AC compressor (for 1 second) and then it would shut off, and never restart after that.
All the searching I have done on doing this conversion on a '97 GLT either ended with "The car ran but we never got the AC to work...Oh, well." or just no follow-up on whether there was any success to get full function.

What we tried in the initial wave of things:

- Stock '98 V70R (-455) ECU - Car ran great, but no AC function at all.

-Flashed -607 bin ECU, with and without the AC mod. - Car ran great, but either no AC function, or the 1 second, as mentioned above. (With the AC mod, this ECU ran fine in my '97 T5 WITH working AC)

- Flashed -609 bin ECU(LPT bin from Turboforslund), with and without AC Mod - Car would just start and die.

 

At this point, we just put the stock injectors and ECU back in the car, and she's been driving it like that for the past three months, or so.
Around this time, I also contacted @Turboforslund about his -609 bin and possibly any information on the -305 bin (which I *think* is the '97 850 LPT AWD ECU).

After a little discussion, he offered to try and extract the bin from a -936 chip, if I could get it to him. I did that and sent it along. Not only was he able to extract the bin, he also did the .xdf for it, which was awesome! :)

With those in hand, I flashed an extra '98MY (-450) ECU with the stock -936 bin. Just to see if things would play nice. It's been below freezing here, so the AC wasn't going to work anyway, but I wanted to see if the car would even run. With that bin on the '98 ECU, the car struggled to start, and wouldn't stay running. With that, I just stuck the stock -936 back in the car again.


At this point, it's looking like there is some sort of hardware difference inside the ECU. Turboforslund even commented in an email that  "The 936 bin did miss some of the features of the x70 bins so it might be hardware differences as well as you say". To that point, I opened up the -936 and -450 ECUs and started looking over things.
On the top, the only difference I saw was some of the smaller surface mount resistors were a different color (blue vs black), but they had the same numbers on them.(The -936(top image) is missing the chip and has the component ID numbers on it)

936_top_2_sm.jpg

450_top_2_sm.jpg


On the bottom, I did find one area where things were different, but I don't know if it applies to the AC function or not. The -936 has a little chip and some extra components, where  the -450 did not.(-936 on top)
936_btm_closeup_sm.jpg

450_btm_closeup_sm.jpg

At this point, I think my option is to get a spare -936 ECU and flash it and tune from there (saving the stock one), but I would like to think that maybe a '98 MY ECU could be modded, but I think it depends on what the applicable differences are between the ECUs.

I have an ECU on the way, but I'm traveling for work over the next couple of weeks, so more testing will have to wait. (Unless someone else with a '97 GLT wants to use the bin/xdf and give it a go)
Maybe someone else has dug this deep into this particular situation and has some more info to offer on this, as well.

0261203936_1037358551.BIN

rev5b_936_fox_01_bin_info.xdf

Edited by Chuck W

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5 hours ago, Chuck W said:

I just wanted to do a little follow-up on the status of trying to make this work for my wife's '97 GLT AND keep the AC working. Long-ish post ahead, but there are some pictures. :)

Brief refresher on the project. We swapped out her tired engine with one from an '01 XC70 and added a 16T and blue injectors  to it. We just wanted to be able to have a little tuning room, and since the '97 GLT is an M4.4 ECU, I figured this would work.

Nope. While we can get '98 MY M4.4 ECUs to run in the car, the AC doesn't work. Without the "AC Mod" there would be no response to the AC command and with the "AC Mod" we would get an initial start of the AC compressor (for 1 second) and then it would shut off, and never restart after that.
All the searching I have done on doing this conversion on a '97 GLT either ended with "The car ran but we never got the AC to work...Oh, well." or just no follow-up on whether there was any success to get full function.

 

Kudos to you, as well as @Turboforslund, for continuing to dig into this!  It would be nice to understand what the issue is, not just for you, but for others who have the '97 GLT too.

 

That being said, and as I alluded to here, it seems to me there's likely an easier way to look at this. 

  1. We know the A/C will work with the 607/608 bin in just about any M4.4 ECU for the '98 S/V70 T5 cars.
  2. And we know the A/C will work with the 607/608 bin in just about any M4.4 ECU for the '96 (and prior) 850 T5 cars, but w/Piet's A/C mod applied to the 607/608 bin.

As you (and @erikv11) have discovered the '97 850 car does not fit either situation 1 or 2 above.  Since above is true (countless people have used this w/success) there must be something different about the way the A/C is wired up on the '97 850, or at least, on some of them.

What I'm suggesting is instead of trying to find ECU/bin solution, you just need to figure what exactly is different in the ECC/AC circuit for your '97 GLT.  Piet laid it out for you quite well in this post

Basically, from the ECU's perspective, there are three pins in play here.

  1. B6: this appears to only be used to sense pwr is being applied to the A/C solenoid (to engage the clutch).  +12v on this pin tells the ECU that the A/C is ON.  My guess is it's used by ECU logic just for verification; i.e. I've commanded the AC ON, check that it is indeed ON.  I would expect this pin to be 0v when the A/C is not being commanded ON as well.
  2. B25: as Piet said, this is the thing that's different between the M4.3 and M4.4 system.  It's used to command the A/C ON from the ECC.  But on M4.3 cars this will be a +12v signal; this is a ground signal on the M4.4 cars.
  3. B40: In both M4.3 and M4.4 cars this simply supplies a ground to the A/C relay to allow the A/C ON command to come through.  ECU logic may take this ground away (disabling the A/C) at WOT, or if it discovers a fault in the system.

What I'm suggesting is wiring up some pig-tails to those 3 pins to monitor what is happening when you turn the A/C on.  That should tell you:

  1. is my car behaving like an M4.3, or M4.4 car?
  2. or something between the two?

I could not find any wiring diagrams that show the '97 GLT A/C circuits, but they must be different.  You may need to trace down some of these wires to figure it out.  Best of luck and let us know what you find.

 

Edited by gdog

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@Chuck W: When I'am trying to download your bin I get this error message "The page you are trying to access is not available for your account."

Dont't know why that is,

Edited by Piet

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8 minutes ago, Piet said:

@Chuck W: When I'am trying to download your bin I get this error message "The page you are trying to access is not available for your account."

Dont't know why that is,

Odd. I can send it to you, if you want to message me your email.

6 hours ago, gdog said:

 

Kudos to you, as well as @Turboforslund, for continuing to dig into this!  It would be nice to understand what the issue is, not just for you, but for others who have the '97 GLT too.

I could not find any wiring diagrams that show the '97 GLT A/C circuits, but they must be different.  You may need to trace down some of these wires to figure it out.  Best of luck and let us know what you find.

 

That very well may have to happen.
It just seems odd to have different wiring for only 1 model. (Seeing as they seemed to wire the chassis on these cars for EVERY available option.)

I've gone through the differences that Piet lined out in his post.
As mentioned, the same -607/608+ Piet ECU works fine in my '97 T5, with full AC function, so it's just the '97 LPT cars. Every wiring diagram with the ECU pinout I have found for the '97 cars shows no separate diagrams for the GLT (Actually, the 96 and 97 cars are all lumped together, as well as the M4.3 and M4.4).

Maybe the board differences are something, maybe they're not, but it's another avenue to check. I just wanted to share some more info and maybe get some more eyes on it.

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That extra chip om the "-936" is an EEPROM, probably used for the imo.

It has almost certainly nothing to do with the aircon.

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7 minutes ago, Piet said:

That extra chip om the "-936" is an EEPROM, probably used for the imo.

It has almost certainly nothing to do with the aircon.

That's kind of what I was seeing when I Googled the part number, but there was nothing specific for Volvo coming up. Just stuff for other manufacturers.

The car was definitely not happy with the -936 bin flashed to the '98 MY ECU. I forgot to mention in my earlier post, in addition to being difficult to start and keep running, the radiator fan also stayed running the entire time. This was even with the key out of the ignition. I had to disconnect the battery to get it to stop. It didn't turn on, however until I attempted to start the car, it didn't just start when I reconnected the battery after swapping the ECUs.
Upon re-installing the stock -936 ECU, the car ran perfectly again.

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2 hours ago, Piet said:

I have send you a modified 607-bin to try.

Please let me know if it works (or not :blink:)

Unfortunately I won't be back in the US until Dec 21st.

Now I get to wait impatiently to try it out.:glare:

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On 11/26/2018 at 3:57 PM, oblark said:

Hi,

As the weather getting colder here in the UK I've noticed when the car is started from cold it runs very rich (AFR of 10) 

When rev'd it doesn't pick up and when it does black smoke comes out of the exhaust, after 5 minutes of idling it runs fine.

So I'm thinking as it's now a 2.5 ltr the warm up tables need tweaking, so which warm up table needs adjusting ?

Thanks

 

warm up tables.jpg

Can you please post the warm-up map hex locations? They arn't in the XDF

 

I am trying to zero out my LTFT since i am running green injectors are 4 bar

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Please refer to this post for correct information

Spoiler

 

Regarding the AC issue, I ran into this problem on a '97 850 once and through a XRAM dump I found F96F.4 was being set.  I believe this is an expected current draw too low error, but I can't find my notes from the diagnosis of the problem so I'm not sure. 

I removed the error check for this bit in the AC routine, and changed a few other bytes. Honestly, I'm not sure why I changed the other bytes, but I attached a screen shot of the differences made between the two .bins. The .bin on the left had functional AC, while the one on the right did not, and had the stock 608 AC routine. 

AC fix.jpg

 

 

Edited by Tightmopedman9
  • Upvote 1

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