Tuners Rejoice! Free Tuning For M4.4!


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  • 3 weeks later...

Quick question please. I know it's out of scope for the thread, but can the Motronic flasher be also used for the 4.3 ? I am trying to help a friend, wrote an 850R (64K) bin on his spare 2.0T5 ECU but the car won't start. Wrote it with Motronic Suite, connected to it afterwars (on the bench, got DTC for ECT "standard error" because nothing connected to it)

It's true I didn't check the ECU in the car before writing the new bin but just asking if it could have been a flashing issue (used +15V for power and boot pin)

Thank you !

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On 11/18/2021 at 12:24 AM, Turboforslund said:

Hi,

24.48 is only better resolution afaik. I run GTX3076 (with pressurized 3" MAF) and 12.24 ms Software without issues.  Approx. 450hp.  

// Turboforslund

I wouldn't say that. I have tuned cars which produce up to 22ms of load. For those cars I'm definitely programming a different ignition angle at 22ms vs 12.24ms. 

Also, if you want to run target load you won't be able to if you're hitting the load cap. 

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Hi,

My loadvalue @ 4500rpm and 1.2 bar of boost is ballpark 8.1 ms (when looking into some old logs from 2015).  630cc injectors is at 65% duty and airmass at that loadpoint is 695kg/h.  Wb lambda at 0.85.  

My pressurized MAF of 3" might bring those values down a bit.  My understanding it that you cannot just add more than the max voltage out of the flow meter.  If you get yourself a bigger MAF you drop in resolution but gain in margin. 

// Turboforslund

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Got an odd issue wondered if anyone could shed some light on.

Got myself a V70 2.5T (LPT) since I killed the 850 T5 (crashed - not engine failure haha), been tuning and tweaking e.t.c. over the past month or so since I got it back on the road. Since the start I had a voltage issue and was only running at around 12.5v - this turned out to be the crimp at the battery terminal so sorted now and running at 13.5v+.

However since sorting this I'm getting throttle tip in knock real bad, regardless of if I'm at standstill or driving along if I blip the throttle I get knock flag and timing pull galore. If I ease the throttle in gently no knock - also no knock on hard pulls e.t.c.

Even going back to an old bin I still get the same issue - and looking at my logs pretty much everything is the same if I compare similar behaviour rows from old logs with no tip in knock vs new logs with tip in knock so really stumped on this one.

Any ideas please?

Edited by jenksta
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1 hour ago, jenksta said:

Got an odd issue wondered if anyone could shed some light on.

Got myself a V70 2.5T (LPT) since I killed the 850 T5 (crashed - not engine failure haha), been tuning and tweaking e.t.c. over the past month or so since I got it back on the road. Since the start I had a voltage issue and was only running at around 12.5v - this turned out to be the crimp at the battery terminal so sorted now and running at 13.5v+.

However since sorting this I'm getting throttle tip in knock real bad, regardless of if I'm at standstill or driving along if I blip the throttle I get knock flag and timing pull galore. If I ease the throttle in gently no knock - also no knock on hard pulls e.t.c.

Even going back to an old bin I still get the same issue - and looking at my logs pretty much everything is the same if I compare similar behaviour rows from old logs with no tip in knock vs new logs with tip in knock so really stumped on this one.

Any ideas please?

The increase in voltage has probably affected your spark, making it hotter. If you've been tuning around poor spark, you probably need to go back and readjust your fuel maps.

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2 hours ago, jenksta said:

Got an odd issue wondered if anyone could shed some light on.

Got myself a V70 2.5T (LPT) since I killed the 850 T5 (crashed - not engine failure haha), been tuning and tweaking e.t.c. over the past month or so since I got it back on the road. Since the start I had a voltage issue and was only running at around 12.5v - this turned out to be the crimp at the battery terminal so sorted now and running at 13.5v+.

However since sorting this I'm getting throttle tip in knock real bad, regardless of if I'm at standstill or driving along if I blip the throttle I get knock flag and timing pull galore. If I ease the throttle in gently no knock - also no knock on hard pulls e.t.c.

Even going back to an old bin I still get the same issue - and looking at my logs pretty much everything is the same if I compare similar behaviour rows from old logs with no tip in knock vs new logs with tip in knock so really stumped on this one.

Any ideas please?

Hi,

Some questions to understand it a bit more. Octane level of your fuel?  Inlet temperature, oil age? Ambient temp? Is it still the same ignition timing and lambda value? Sparkplug gap unchanged? 

// Turboforslund

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Literally nothing changed, drove it, parked up, fixed the issue with the battery terminal, then drove it afterwards and stuff loads of tip in knock. I figure either the higher voltage has messed with something or perhaps something has gone amiss when messing with the battery cable? I put some fresh fuel in too (super 99 as per) and no difference.

 

Inlet temp is the only thing I don't currently have logged, although it's not exactly warm here in the UK atm so I wouldn't expect them to be too high.

 

Had new plugs less than 1k ago but didn't think about the spark being affected by higher voltage - but seems like it could make sense. I have my own wideband control implemented and in the knock areas it's dipping to quite rich AFRs (low as 12s) so could heat really be the issue?

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Hi,

Dwelltime should (in modern ecu's) differ/ be compensated depending on system voltage to maintain the same mJ of spark energy at the plugs.  Some platinum sparkplugs can react to ethanol blends in the fuel. Pre-ignition might occur but on higher loads.  Sweden tends to increase the percentage of ethanol in our "gasoline" every now and then but i'm not sure if UK has the same blends.  Is it reproducible if you disconnect the altenator?

Is the enrichment a part of the built in safety function when knocking occurs?  

// Turboforslund

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15 hours ago, Turboforslund said:

Hi,

Dwelltime should (in modern ecu's) differ/ be compensated depending on system voltage to maintain the same mJ of spark energy at the plugs.  Some platinum sparkplugs can react to ethanol blends in the fuel. Pre-ignition might occur but on higher loads.  Sweden tends to increase the percentage of ethanol in our "gasoline" every now and then but i'm not sure if UK has the same blends.  Is it reproducible if you disconnect the altenator?

Is the enrichment a part of the built in safety function when knocking occurs?  

// Turboforslund

We have all this E10 stuff over here now but I use super anyway which is still E5. As you say dwell is compensated for battery voltage and injector dead times too so wouldn't have thought the increased voltage would make a real difference (or at least not to cause this).

Knock enrichment will kick in once knock gets so much, but regardless of enrichment and timing pull it still knocks. If it reacted to the knock and stopped it via adaptive knock then I'd have a better idea but it doesn't. Only other thing I can think of is the acceleration enrichment but can't see why battery voltage should affect it and never had or heard of anyone having to tweak it to fix something like this before. 

 

One thing I do notice in the logs is that the timing pull is mostly in 1,3 and 5 and only a small amount on 2 and 4. Not sure if this is relevant or not though. 

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Strange.  Spark timing should be 20 to 10 deg before TDC to avoid issues.  Earlier than that might be bad at tip-in.  How about crankase pressure?  Oil consumption?  Bad oil scraper rings? Compression test?  Heat value of the new sparkplugs?  Any adjustments done to the idle position of the throttle valve?  Low inlet pressures (below 300 mbarA) at motoring/idle will pull up excessive amounts of oil = knock. 

// Turboforslund

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On 12/16/2021 at 6:48 PM, jenksta said:

Got an odd issue wondered if anyone could shed some light on.

Got myself a V70 2.5T (LPT) since I killed the 850 T5 (crashed - not engine failure haha), been tuning and tweaking e.t.c. over the past month or so since I got it back on the road. Since the start I had a voltage issue and was only running at around 12.5v - this turned out to be the crimp at the battery terminal so sorted now and running at 13.5v+.

However since sorting this I'm getting throttle tip in knock real bad, regardless of if I'm at standstill or driving along if I blip the throttle I get knock flag and timing pull galore. If I ease the throttle in gently no knock - also no knock on hard pulls e.t.c.

Even going back to an old bin I still get the same issue - and looking at my logs pretty much everything is the same if I compare similar behaviour rows from old logs with no tip in knock vs new logs with tip in knock so really stumped on this one.

Any ideas please?

 

It can happen with bad engine mounts. The shock of the engine moving can cause the knock sensor to pick up the engine metal clanking as knock.

 

There is also the possibility of bad fuel trims and the enrichment on sudden throttle surge to cause the car to go lean. Id check those out.

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