Zimmerman V. Florida


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I'm really getting tired of telling people this, but....

Hispanic is NOT a race. It's an ethnicity. He is a white guy, who happens to be hispanic.

I stand corrected... sorry.

This is what blows me away. WHY IS IT ABOUT RACE? Even if the Police of Sanford were to admit to consistently racial profiling, Zimmerman was not a cop, he was a regular citizen, and if you look at his calls to the Police he tattled on EVERYONE. Regardless of race.

I get why people want this to be about race. I get it. But what they're saying is that every average citizen who develops a suspicion of any black kid who walks down the street through their neighborhood is racially motivated in their suspicion.

And I reject that notion.

They are projecting their own scenarios and experience onto this particular case and trying to crucify this stupid man for his choice of following a black kid who was behaving in a suspicious manner in a neighborhood that had experienced a string of burglaries.

Did Zimmerman attack Martin or did Martin jump Zimmerman? They don't know but they believe Martin was justified for being fearful if he did attack Zimmerman first because Zimmerman was following him like (as their story continues) white men have hunted down black men for centuries.

This narrative is all fucked up. And I'm pissed to see them turning this into a Civil Rights case because there's no clear evidence other than the popular clamor that it deserves to be.

Alain, I'm playing devil's advocate here... Why shouldn't it be about race? Especially when race = power in America...

From the 17th and 18th century people of color were stripped of their heritage and history, subjected to slavery, and/or having their land(s) taken from them or being raped, beaten and murdered for having the audacity to questioning authority. In the 19th century people of color were denied the right to vote and to fight for their country, placed in internment camps, red-lined, raped, beaten and murdered for having the audacity to question authority..

In the 20th century,people are still subjected to being red-lined, having their land taken from them (foreclosure crisis), placed in internment camps (Gitmo), and raped, beaten or murdered for questioning authority (I think that we all agree in this thread that (if nothing else) Trayvon Martin questioned Zimmerman's authority, which ultimately lead to his murder). To me, the simple answer to your question is this:

This is about race because almost everything is about race in America.

But, since you're rejecting the notion that this is ALL about race, then perhaps you can explain some of these potentially racial elements ::

- When Zimmerman 1st saw Trayvon he associated Travon's behavior with that of suspicious activity instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt that he may have recently moved to the neighborhood and was lost?

- I know that it was reported that there had been a rash of break-ins, but I never read that a description of the perp was provided to the public by the police. So why did Zimmerman automatically zone in on Trayvon possibly being a suspect as opposed to someone from a different age group or racial group? Furthermore, why did he feel empowered to stop and interrogate Trayvon?

- Why, during his 911 call, did he use them term "them/they" instead of "this guy" or "this kid"? (Historically, them/they has been used as a euphemism for people of color. i.e "They only get scholarships due to meet a quota."

Individually, each could be explained away, but collectively they do seem to point to Martin being profiled. You do realize that most acts of racial intolerance are done covertly, not overtly and because of that, people typically will draw upon their personal experiences to define whether someone's behavior is racist or not..

My Final Springer thought:

Here's an analogy for you... If you were investing in commodities you would be very concerned with the trends. Whether calls or puts, day trading or a longer term investor - you would want to know which direction the market is going, correct? Now, sometimes you may do some in depth analysis to see "why" the market is performing the way it is... but, even then, more times than not, you're probably doing that in order to gauge when the trend will shift in the direction with which you will profit. Although their actions may influence it, no one investor is in a position to control the market forever.

To me, racial issues in America are like this hypothetical commodities market and each racial group is like one of the individual commodities that this "market" is comprised of.

Individuals, like you, me and others who've posted in this thread, etc... ,are the "investors" who are trying to understand the direction of this market, Some individuals may see the trend line from a micro point of view, and declare that the "market" is going in a "bad" direction due to "racist" behavior. Others may take a Macro point of view and say that things have gotten better over time, that this is a momentary blip, and we are trending toward equality. Then you've got the group(s) who are just trying to influence the market (by quoting "skreet peoples law" or having "tea parties", "Klan rallys", etc...) in order to profit from it.

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Darnell, you need to do better research:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/28/zimmerman-s-twin-lakes-community-was-on-edge-before-trayvon-shooting.html

Read about the description of the perpetrators of a number of the burglaries in Twin Lakes leading up to the night Zimmerman and Martin had their conflict. This was a community on edge.

And the coded language? It's only coded if you go looking for it with racism in mind. The words used can just as easily be describing the burglars who were getting away with it. No race indicated. And consider that Zimmerman didn't characterize race until the dispatcher asked him the race of the suspect. Also consider that he did say to the dispatcher, "this guy looks like he's up to no good."

Finally, nowhere do we find that Zimmerman deliberately stopped Martin to interrogate him. He encountered him on his way back from looking for an address to tell the dispatcher where he was. Martin asked the first question. Zimmerman responded by asking what he was doing there.

Not everything is about race. If you want to change it from being about race then you have to be willing to be the change we are waiting for.

People rush to judgment and draw conclusions without the full story. With unanswered questions assumptions are made to fill in the gaps. It's funny how the story changes when you find out, as Henry Fonda demonstrates, that the facts aren't what you think they are when that unique switchblade turns out to be very common.

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Thank god we have some sort of media fired social injustice..otherwise we'd talk about stupid cars all day.

If Zimmerman was black and shot trevon we'd never even know it happened..black on black end of story.

If Trevon shot Zimmerman we maybe would have heard a little but Treyvon would have been found guilty and maximum sentence handed down.

Jorge Zimmerman ( see what I did there?) went lookin for trouble and he found it..thing is he had a gun..and he knew it. Otherwise I can guarantee he wouldn't have pursued..

When I talk to my black friends.. They just say " yeah, typical shit" and shrug their shoulders.

It'll never change.

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It's a social construct, currently defined quite clearly in the Census Bureau. I appreciate your opinion, but you don't just ignore the current definition of race because you think it shouldn't be like that....

Race for the American social construct is skin color and prescribed by the dominant group, ethnicity is cultural (and sometimes national) heritage. This in not the end all definition, as each culture and society views race and ethnicity differently - and it is constantly changing construct. It will be much different in 40 years when Latinos (Hispanic is incorrect) make up the majority of the US population. This whole shit-storm was definitely about race, media and politically fueled the day they arrested GZ.

Why is this even a thread?? That whole case doesn't even deserve attention.

Its like herpes.

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And Erik, that's actually the point. The media and political figures made the case about race. They both have a narrative they want to follow: the mainstream media wants to create a buzzing story (mission accomplished) and the political figures want to leverage it to look good or make their voices heard.

But the case itself.

The actual figures involved.

The police got it right the first time.

Zimmerman acted according to the law.

It's a tragedy.

It's a sad statement of where hold your ground laws can lead.

But it's only about race because the public figures want it to be.

Lucas is right, it doesn't deserve attention for the reasons people are clamoring about it.

What they should be talking about is how to change the wording and broad reach of the stand your ground law.

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I stand corrected... sorry.

Alain, I'm playing devil's advocate here... Why shouldn't it be about race? Especially when race = power in America...

From the 17th and 18th century people of color were stripped of their heritage and history, subjected to slavery, and/or having their land(s) taken from them or being raped, beaten and murdered for having the audacity to questioning authority. In the 19th century people of color were denied the right to vote and to fight for their country, placed in internment camps, red-lined, raped, beaten and murdered for having the audacity to question authority..

In the 20th century,people are still subjected to being red-lined, having their land taken from them (foreclosure crisis), placed in internment camps (Gitmo), and raped, beaten or murdered for questioning authority (I think that we all agree in this thread that (if nothing else) Trayvon Martin questioned Zimmerman's authority, which ultimately lead to his murder). To me, the simple answer to your question is this:

This is about race because almost everything is about race in America.

But, since you're rejecting the notion that this is ALL about race, then perhaps you can explain some of these potentially racial elements ::

- When Zimmerman 1st saw Trayvon he associated Travon's behavior with that of suspicious activity instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt that he may have recently moved to the neighborhood and was lost?

- I know that it was reported that there had been a rash of break-ins, but I never read that a description of the perp was provided to the public by the police. So why did Zimmerman automatically zone in on Trayvon possibly being a suspect as opposed to someone from a different age group or racial group? Furthermore, why did he feel empowered to stop and interrogate Trayvon?

- Why, during his 911 call, did he use them term "them/they" instead of "this guy" or "this kid"? (Historically, them/they has been used as a euphemism for people of color. i.e "They only get scholarships due to meet a quota."

Individually, each could be explained away, but collectively they do seem to point to Martin being profiled. You do realize that most acts of racial intolerance are done covertly, not overtly and because of that, people typically will draw upon their personal experiences to define whether someone's behavior is racist or not..

My Final Springer thought:

Here's an analogy for you... If you were investing in commodities you would be very concerned with the trends. Whether calls or puts, day trading or a longer term investor - you would want to know which direction the market is going, correct? Now, sometimes you may do some in depth analysis to see "why" the market is performing the way it is... but, even then, more times than not, you're probably doing that in order to gauge when the trend will shift in the direction with which you will profit. Although their actions may influence it, no one investor is in a position to control the market forever.

To me, racial issues in America are like this hypothetical commodities market and each racial group is like one of the individual commodities that this "market" is comprised of.

Individuals, like you, me and others who've posted in this thread, etc... ,are the "investors" who are trying to understand the direction of this market, Some individuals may see the trend line from a micro point of view, and declare that the "market" is going in a "bad" direction due to "racist" behavior. Others may take a Macro point of view and say that things have gotten better over time, that this is a momentary blip, and we are trending toward equality. Then you've got the group(s) who are just trying to influence the market (by quoting "skreet peoples law" or having "tea parties", "Klan rallys", etc...) in order to profit from it.

"

Alain, I'm playing devil's advocate here... Why shouldn't it be about race? Especially when race = power in America...

From the 17th and 18th century people of color were stripped of their heritage and history, subjected to slavery, and/or having their land(s) taken from them or being raped, beaten and murdered for having the audacity to questioning authority. In the 19th century people of color were denied the right to vote and to fight for their country, placed in internment camps, red-lined, raped, beaten and murdered for having the audacity to question authority..

In the 20th century,people are still subjected to being red-lined, having their land taken from them (foreclosure crisis), placed in internment camps (Gitmo), and raped, beaten or murdered for questioning authority (I think that we all agree in this thread that (if nothing else) Trayvon Martin questioned Zimmerman's authority, which ultimately lead to his murder)."

Remember, class, the only slaves that matter are the black ones.

Guess what! I'm an Irish-Italian American. My people were discriminated against, enslaved, sold as goods, refused jobs. My grandfather had a sign hanging in his house that he stole when he was younger. "Help wanted, Irish need not apply." But no one truly cares about them. Oh, they're white. They were priviliged from the start. They didn't have to endure the struggles that the black man endures.

I find it incredibly amusing that the people who are the most up-in-arms against racism don't really care about all racism and discrimination. They just care about the "popular" outcry.

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No Mike, that case is flat out murder. The only here we go again is that there is clamoring that because an old white man shot a young black boy it must be a hate crime. Maybe the old guy hated the kid because he kept running through his yard and making noise playing basketball in the alley?

lawn.jpg

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What's the difference between a person of color and a white Irish person? One of them eventually assimilates into the majority culture and society and does not carry a mark that quickly identifies them for discrimination.

I don't believe in the victim culture. I believe in people making the most of themselves in spite of whatever challenges life throws at them and succeeding in spite of those challenges.

Lucas - what exactly is a VNR?

Video News Release

Van Nostrand Reinhold (publishing company)

Video Noise Reduction

Veranstaltungsnummer

VFR Flight Not Recommended

Very Nice Roll

Video News Reel

Variable Navigation Ratio

Vehicular Network Radio

Vanguard Natural Resources, LLC

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