Zimmerman V. Florida


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Hes not using an affirmative stand your ground defense. He is claiming self defense. As for it being for the courts to decide, not really. Juries do not make law. The law is already on the books, and its pretty clear cut. In FL if you throw a punch, you can be shot and its a justifiable shoot. The question here is did GZ commit battery on TM before the assault. If so there is that nasty gray area of escalation of force. That said, no matter what you say there is reasonable doubt all over this. Based on facts so far no sane person can say for 100% sure GZ is guilty, no less 12 people. The DA should not have indicted and every one knows it. What worse is all the bleeding hearts who are saying, "whats the big deal? he will get his day in court". Sure he will, but he will also probably go bankrupt trying to mount a defense. Call it what it is. This is a dog and pony show for the ignorant masses who would riot if he was not arrested.

Yes, I found that in the news today after I wrote what I wrote. But the fact of the matter is, they're saving the question of immunity based on stand your ground for after they present their case. The defense is trying to have their cake and eat it too. They feel they have a better case taking this to an uneducated jury they can persuade rather than trying to prove that Zimmerman met the 4 requirements of stand your ground that the judge would consider. But, they're also claiming that the law doesn't require them to hold the immunity hearing before the case is heard by a jury.

They have to prove he used unauthorized deadly force in one or all of the following four areas:

1) the shooter having a right to be where the incident occurred

2) the shooter must have been acting lawfully at the time

3) must have been attacked

4) must have had a “reasonable” belief that deadly force was necessary

#2 and #3 are where the true grey areas lie in this case.

And I wasn't claiming the jury would make law. I was stating that this has the potential to be pushed all the way up to the Supreme Court, not necessarily Zimmerman's case but how this is judged could be part of the ongoing impetus to push the constitutionality of the Stand Your Ground laws on many State books.

As for whether Martin deserved to be killed if Zimmerman's story is true? Really? :blink:

He's a 17 year old kid who got in a fight with another guy. Heated words happen in the midst of misunderstandings, especially when you're a punk kid. There's no indication he was a gang banger (like they're killing off in Chicago), there's no indication he actually intended to kill Zimmerman even if he did declare, "You're going to die...." How often do we declare, "I'm going to kill you!" or other such phrases where the real intent is nowhere near the desire to end someone's life? So no, I don't see it as offing one more low life. And no, I'm not glad it ended the way it played out.

And I don't believe Zimmerman. His story reeks of improvisation to try and make things look better for himself. He was clearly looking for trouble from the way I see it after reading all of the various accounts including those that are most favorable toward him.

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He's a 17 year old kid who got in a fight with another guy. Heated words happen in the midst of misunderstandings, especially when you're a punk kid. There's no indication he was a gang banger (like they're killing off in Chicago), there's no indication he actually intended to kill Zimmerman even if he did declare, "You're going to die...." How often do we declare, "I'm going to kill you!" or other such phrases where the real intent is nowhere near the desire to end someone's life? So no, I don't see it as offing one more low life. And no, I'm not glad it ended the way it played out.

He was dealing drugs and trying to buy a hand gun, that is fact and in his own words no way debated. It was only a matter of time. I am sick of people saying little timmy is only 10 he doesn't know better. 4 years later its he is just a HS kid he will learn in college. In college the excuse is you are supposed to be wild in college. Before you know it you have a full grown douchbag who is a drain on society. I had a group of 10-14 year olds threaten to knock Shannon out of her kayak a few weeks ago. This group of retards was littering, cussing, throwing things at people all day who just ignored them. Finally I had enough and told them they were all gonna cry like little boys when I beat them down like grown men. Say its harsh all you want, but you want to guess who was a lot more polite after that? If you are old enough to wonder the streets by yourself, you should be old enough to act like an adult. If TM was such a child he should not have been unsupervised. Thats probably half his problem, but you know as well as I do a 17yo should know better. Old enough to walk the streets, old enough to die in them. Good riddance.

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He's a 17 year old kid who got in a fight with another guy. Heated words happen in the midst of misunderstandings, especially when you're a punk kid. There's no indication he was a gang banger (like they're killing off in Chicago), there's no indication he actually intended to kill Zimmerman even if he did declare, "You're going to die...." How often do we declare, "I'm going to kill you!" or other such phrases where the real intent is nowhere near the desire to end someone's life? So no, I don't see it as offing one more low life. And no, I'm not glad it ended the way it played out.

I'm not going to wait to find out if the person who said "you're going to die" while bloodying my dome means it or if he's just kidding.

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Well, he was tatted so we all know according to Mike that he was already on the slippery slope and had no chance of a white collar job let alone any real honest work.

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I work with teenagers regularly so I know what you mean by encouraging respect and recognizing those that are on the downward slide. Still my read is that Trayvon, an A and B student was still nothing more than a wannabe thug who was experimenting with things. Zimmerman is not the saint who stood his ground everyone makes him out to be.

If you're referring to his text messages and facebook messages as evidence that he was a drug dealer it's certain that it could be colored that way but you don't have definitive evidence. Yes he grew it, yes he smoked it and yes maybe he shared it with friends but no evidence of selling from those messages. And yes there was discussion of sharing a gun and yes there were photos of a gun but again what does that tell you? If he was living in Wyoming no one would blink an eye at a kid who showed interest in a handgun. Would they? Sounds like you're lining his actions up against a profile to me.

Neither one of them is squeaky clean but honestly, was he a drug dealer as in The Wire or just a two bit high school student who sold some hash on the side and had a fascination with guns. There's more than one way to spin that story and your version isn't necessarily the truth.

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If you're referring to his text messages and facebook messages as evidence that he was a drug dealer it's certain that it could be colored that way but you don't have definitive evidence. Yes he grew it, yes he smoked it and yes maybe he shared it with friends but no evidence of selling from those messages. And yes there was discussion of sharing a gun and yes there were photos of a gun but again what does that tell you? If he was living in Wyoming no one would blink an eye at a kid who showed interest in a handgun. Would they? Sounds like you're lining his actions up against a profile to me.

Thats 2 felonies right there. Not going to argue character and prior bad acts, my only point at this point is, "if TM followed GZ to his car at all, he had it coming". This is not the same as saying women who dress a certain way have it coming. If I am followed to my car and attacked, I can tell you how it ends. Again, I think there is more to this story, but I think even you would agree there is not enough evidence here to warrant a murder 2 charge under FL law.

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Cultivation and Possession with Intent to Distribute. Both felonies that the right lawyer would get knocked down to misdemeanors for first time offenses but an underprivileged kid wouldn't likely have access to that kind of representation.

One of the best representations of the story that I've seen seems to show that Martin didn't follow him back to the car though. He passed Zimmerman's car and then fled to the home where he was staying. When he saw Zimmerman at the end of the block of houses he then went down the street to confront him and ask why he was following him. What happened after that is hazy at best. Murder 2 is a stretch, it seems like Manslaughter is the more likely case but my guess is that there's evidence at play here that isn't in the public yet. Something that doesn't corroborate Zimmerman's story like the distance or angle from which the shot was taken.

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I'm 225 pounds and pretty street savvy. If I am followed and I make it home, I am not going back outside unless the person is in my yard. And even then I would be on the phone to FHP already. I would bet "if" TM went back outside, it was not just to ask why he was being followed. Its funny GZ was the one on the phone to 911 BEFORE the shooting and not TM who was supposedly terrified that he was being followed. Story does not jive.

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This trial is total B.S. beyond words the kid had it coming glad he is gone worthless P.O.S.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/05/new_evidence_shows_trayvons_life_unraveling.html

The Martin family attorneys say the evidence is irrelevant. They are wrong. It is damning. The text messages and photos from Martin's cell phone tell a story wildly at odds with the one the State of Florida and the media have been peddling for more than a year, but one altogether truer and sadder.

MARTIN: Cause man dat nigga snitched on me

FRIEND: Bae y you always fightinqq man, you got suspended?

MARTIN: Naw we thumped afta skool in a duckd off spot

FRIEND: Ohh, Well Damee

MARTIN: I lost da 1st round :( but won da 2nd nd 3rd . . . .

FRIEND: Ohhh So It Wass 3 Rounds? Damn well at least yu wonn lol but yuu needa stop fighting bae Forreal

MARTIN: Nay im not done with fool..... he gone hav 2 see me again

FRIEND: Nooo... Stop, yuu waint gonn bee satisified till yuh suspended again, huh?

MARTIN: Naw but he aint breed nuff 4 me, only his nose

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/29/3422519/lawyer-zimmerman-prosecutor-withheld.html

Proof that prosecution tried to hide Trayvon's pictures and texts...

ORLANDO, Fla. -- A court employee who retrieved photos and deleted text messages from Trayvon Martin's cellphone has been placed on administrative leave after an attorney testified that prosecutors didn't properly turn over the evidence to the defense, an attorney said Wednesday.

Former prosecutor Wesley White said he was ethically obligated to reveal that Fourth Judicial Circuit Information Technology Director Ben Kruidbos retrieved the data that weren't turned over.

Kruidbos was placed on leave shortly after White testified during a hearing in George Zimmerman's second-degree murder case on Tuesday. White said Kruidbos was interviewed by state attorney investigators twice before the action was taken.

White said he wasn't surprised of possible evidence violations by Zimmerman prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda.

"I was saddened by it, but I'm not surprised," he said.

White first learned about the evidence through Kruidbos more than a month ago, he said.

Phone and email messages left at the office of Fourth Judicial Circuit State Attorney Angela Corey were not immediately returned.

White led the Nassau County state attorney's office before resigning in December, citing differences of opinion with Corey.

Trayvon Martin in morgue 3 days as 'John Doe' after mom reported him missing

Great Parenting

http://www.examiner.com/article/trayvon-martin-morgue-3-days-as-john-doe-after-mom-reported-him-missing

Trayvon facebook is pretty condemning as well.

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A history of stealing as we know the items found in the bag match missing items from recent robberies in the area.

732452d1370023127-deserves-a-new-thread-

I don't know how anyone could defend this punk makes me sick.

Edited by Fishey
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I've already said it but nonetheless, just because you're a punk kid doesn't mean you deserve a bullet to the chest. A beat down? Maybe. But a bullet? Is life really that cheap? That's why they're defending him.

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