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I mean yes but the odds of them splitting 16-4 someplace to join it with other 16-4 before the equip closet are ao incredibly minute.

The testing wouldn't really be capacitance but rather tone generator to locate speaker physically

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That would definitely work for pairing them Fudge, although I'm not sure you'd be able to figure out polarity that way.

Polarity wont matter that much.. they would just be out of phase. IF he even notices that than all you do is reverse one of the pairs. It will cause no other issues

And based on room acoustics out of phase may have zero effect because the waves may not cancel each other out.

Some people are very sensitive to this and others never notice

Reading the resistance in Ohm's could work unless there are speakers wired in Parallel or Series/Parallel then the resistance will be different.

Here is a trick:

Take a 9v battery (Speakers generally run on @ 10v) and touch the wires to the battery terminals. Have someone observe speakers..

When one cone moves out you have proper wires and orientation, then try the next pair and see.. once you get the 2 speakers to move in the same direction, you're in phase and have the proper pair.. Try Red + and Black - first and see what happens. Go from there

Edited by Dick Dastardly
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on another note, made some mass loaded speaker stands on sunday.

They weigh about 30# each and look good.

They cost about $40 including foot spikes

I used a stair tread from Lowes and 4" DWV pipe. Some All-Thread and play sand. Feet are Sewell brass floor spikes

Cut the step into pieces and drilled the center holes on a drill press

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Primed and painted PVC

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Routed edges and countersunk the adjustable spikes

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Ran the all thread through the center put the pipe on and filled with sand..

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Tightened top an bottom to seal sand.. and done

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on another note, made some mass loaded speaker stands on sunday.

They weigh about 30# each and look good.

They cost about $40 including foot spikes

I used a stair tread from Lowes and 4" DWV pipe. Some All-Thread and play sand. Feet are Sewell brass floor spikes

Looks good man. I need to get around to making a base for my Concertinos, but then that would involve actually fixing them

Speaking of phase though, those $18,000 KEFs? Left speaker seems to be crossed internally; permanently out of phase. Hook it up appropriately and the sound stage is scattered, reverse connections and the imaging is spot on. Sounds spectacular as is but there's no way something like that should slip through QC.

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Looks good man. I need to get around to making a base for my Concertinos, but then that would involve actually fixing them

Speaking of phase though, those $18,000 KEFs? Left speaker seems to be crossed internally; permanently out of phase. Hook it up appropriately and the sound stage is scattered, reverse connections and the imaging is spot on. Sounds spectacular as is but there's no way something like that should slip through QC.

That happens a lot. Remember phase can be off in the amp too. put the wires where it sounds best and the loudest at the same volume setting

I have set up HT systems with phase software and it points out the speakers that are out of phase so you can correct them.

Phase can also change throughout the frequency spectrum as well

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I've purchased separate drivers that came from the factory wired out of phase at the voice coil; it was a kit that I had built in the past, and was building this one for someone else. We hooked them up and they just sounded lifeless and terrible. After a bunch of brainstorming I finally got to the issue of them being wired backwards at the voice coil, and these weren't cheap woofers either. Ever since then I use a AA battery to test every driver I get. Not sure how you would test for that in a multiway speaker that's already assembled (where you don't have the option to test each individual driver), mainly because I'm sure KEF wouldn't be fond of you pulling the woofers out (possibly void the warranty?). Do NOT use the battery method with tweeters, only woofers and midwoofers.

I would play a heavy bass track and make sure the speakers all fire the same way when the bass hits. If one is different from the rest, there's your problem.

Regarding the wiring... you'll wire the Niles box's input to the Front Main A on the back of the Denon. If it were me, I would still pull each individual speaker down to make sure polarity is correct and that everything is wired right. To see which wires go where, when you have a speaker out and can access the wires going to the speaker, simply twist the 2 wires together, then take a volt meter set to beep when the pos and neg leads are touching and go to the Niles box... put the pos lead from the volt meter on one wire, then test every other wire with the neg lead until the volt meter beeps. As you figure things out, mark the wires with a pc of tape. It'll take a while and it's obviously easier with 2 people, but that's the way to know for sure that it's wired right.

Edit: If you don't have a volt meter and/or aren't familiar with wiring, this ^^ is probably sounding pretty confusing. If that's the case let me know and I'll try to explain better.

Edited by mattsk8
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the receiver arrived today.

and i totally took the easy way out and just attached the wires as suggested. and oh my goodness. it works.

its amazing.

I get pretty good sound coverage in the upstairs of my house. for a little radio in the morning and pandora it will get the job done. im Thrilled.

THANKS SO MUCH!

Mike

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That happens a lot. Remember phase can be off in the amp too. put the wires where it sounds best and the loudest at the same volume setting

I have set up HT systems with phase software and it points out the speakers that are out of phase so you can correct them.

Phase can also change throughout the frequency spectrum as well

Yep, well aware. No Audyssey here but easy enough to test anyway. I am just disappointed that, should this be the issue, it's on a pair of speakers that rivals some whole home installs. I had another pair of speakers on loan that were incredibly accurate so I am inclined to go with the new tower before digging into other equipment but I see your point. Without that contrast I'd be starting at source -> pre -> room corrector -> amp -> speaker and killing a whole day, may end up that way anyway but we'll see.

My reference tracks in this instance were selected movements from sinfonietta by janacek conducted by antoni wit (all around awesome recording), modest mouse - broke (personal reference), rage - take the power back (everything hits so hard and is so impressive sonically). Didn't have much time aside from that.

Be great to hear what you guys use when testing equip for the first time.

Edit: Glad to head you got it going Mike, enjoy!

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Yep, well aware. No Audyssey here but easy enough to test anyway. I am just disappointed that, should this be the issue, it's on a pair of speakers that rivals some whole home installs. I had another pair of speakers on loan that were incredibly accurate so I am inclined to go with the new tower before digging into other equipment but I see your point. Without that contrast I'd be starting at source -> pre -> room corrector -> amp -> speaker and killing a whole day, may end up that way anyway but we'll see.

Definitely keep us posted as to the issue.

Be great to hear what you guys use when testing equip for the first time.

This will get interesting. I go to a lot of shows, I'm going to one in Louisville next weekend. I HATE the typical audiophile jazz crap, it doesn't make sense to me to demo speakers using music that makes a Sony alarm clock radio sound good. I run a pretty large gamut of music when I initially test speakers I'm finishing or that I've built (or equipment), and I actually use an iPod simply because of the large amount of different songs. I know it's compressed, but I can hear what I'm looking for. For instance... how well you can hear the depth of the mandolin that comes in at about 58 seconds in Billy Joel's Piano Man, not necessarily a song I ride around listening to all the time, but great for hearing the soundstage a speaker presents. Or the guitar in Alice In Chain's Nutshell; how defined it sounds and how well they separate the different strums is great for knowing they're voiced well, a lot of times this is right where a speaker is crossed over (in the 2k-3.5k range) and the depth of this song will tell you if the speakers are summed well. I also like a lot of Dire Straits, Fleetwood Mac's The Chain, etc. Quite a bit of different music, I could go on and on and I'm sure I'll keep thinking of other songs I use. A couple rap songs or hip hop as well, even some country (Allan Jackson's Blues Man, Alison Krauss if you consider that country).

For figuring out how well they take abuse, Infected Mushroom's Saeed, and Metallica's Dyer's Eve at insane volume levels,. And believe it or not, the Melvins Honey Bucket; but I've heard speakers that were pretty good fall apart during the first ~58 seconds of this song when they were punished.

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Can't you rip your stuff to Apple's lossless format, and put that on the ipod?

Yes and no. I could have if I wouldn't have already downloaded it in the format I used originally. I didn't know anything about MP3, AAC, lossless, etc when I first got the iPod and started dumping all my music. I had my CD collection stolen out of my Tahoe years ago, so I was then at the mercy of everything I already did. In the beginning I didn't have a clue, and just used iTune's factory setting which is the worst, most compressed. I've figured that out since then and all my newer music gets dumped in the highest bit rate, but you can't undo it if you already downloaded in a more compressed format (you can't go up, only down). But still not lossless, I haven't tried that yet.

That said, I'm still learning and if there's a way to undo that damage, I'm all ears (any way to up the bitrate of the music I already downloaded). Just being honest, I'm still not hugely savvy with all the different formats, but I am learning and would love to hear what you guys do.

I also have a really good Marantz SACD player, and I use that most of the time for critical listening. But in my shop where I build the speakers, my only source is either my PC or my iPod.

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When I was a kid, and new to all this, I needed to move my music collection from one computer to another. I discovered I could re-encode it all as 32kbps MP3, and it would be super small! HOW AMAZING! And then I could just up-convert back, or even better, to 320kbps! That's when I learned about lossy compression the hard way, and just how terrible 32kbps is :lol:

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When I was a kid, and new to all this, I needed to move my music collection from one computer to another. I discovered I could re-encode it all as 32kbps MP3, and it would be super small! HOW AMAZING! And then I could just up-convert back, or even better, to 320kbps! That's when I learned about lossy compression the hard way, and just how terrible 32kbps is :lol:

That's almost exactly how it played out with me as well. "If I can double the storage with this setting, why in the world wouldn't I?"

Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.j

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When I was a kid, and new to all this, I needed to move my music collection from one computer to another. I discovered I could re-encode it all as 32kbps MP3, and it would be super small! HOW AMAZING! And then I could just up-convert back, or even better, to 320kbps! That's when I learned about lossy compression the hard way, and just how terrible 32kbps is :lol:

I'm actually surprised I didn't do this as well back in the day when I had my Diamond Rio MP3 player that could hold pretty much 1 cd's worth of songs. And then maybe another 4 with the flash card I had.

Jeeze. I was looking for a pic of the rio to post, and I just saw that the last windows to support it was 98. I swear mine worked in win 2k.

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