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Simply Volvo

Simply T-5R, The Build Thread : A New Hope

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Much love everyone.

Hopefully we can get this done and have more fun racing this summer again like last!!

~Matt

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Awesome work so far Matt, just got caught up on a bunch of videos and have a couple more to go. 
 

Really enjoying seeing apply some serious engineering to this old AWD system - I’m excited to see where you take it when you get out on the track! 

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Should weigh that thing again I'm pretty sure the one I had was almost 100lbs haha. You're just getting stronger

 

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I think I just had a PTSD episode looking at that bare subframe. It takes a ton of work to get that mess apart and cleaned up. Great work!

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On 4/13/2020 at 8:41 AM, tuner4life said:

I think I just had a PTSD episode looking at that bare subframe. It takes a ton of work to get that mess apart and cleaned up. Great work!

It was so much friggin work. Pressing out / burning out all of the bushings and then pressing in all of the new ones was an insane amount of work... not to mention cleaning up the whole thing and replacing everything. Should be worth it though, every single part is going to be brand new and replaced.

More updates. Going with a true LSD in the rear. None of the stock G80 locker crap that breaks.

 

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LOL - when I first went through the vid I had the sound off - and I was wondering what the heck the fake bearing were for, since obviously end float on the pumpkin is way off that way :D

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I'll just leave these here - modified Gen5 Haldex dropped into P80 in Europe - using VW Haldex controller

 

Screen-Shot-2020-04-29-at-10-56-55-PM.pn

 

Screen-Shot-2020-04-29-at-10-56-12-PM.pn

 

Screen-Shot-2020-04-29-at-10-56-35-PM.pn

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30 minutes ago, lookforjoe said:

I'll just leave these here - modified Gen5 Haldex dropped into P80 in Europe - using VW Haldex controller

*SNIP*

Hussein, where'd you find this? I'd love to read more about it.

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3 hours ago, lookforjoe said:

I'll just leave these here - modified Gen5 Haldex dropped into P80 in Europe - using VW Haldex controller

 

Screen-Shot-2020-04-29-at-10-56-55-PM.pn

u have a link?

is this a xc90 or a p1/p3 one?

tia!

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13 hours ago, quiksilver said:

Hussein, where'd you find this? I'd love to read more about it.

 

9 hours ago, aziz said:

u have a link?

is this a xc90 or a p1/p3 one?

tia!

Unfortunately that's all I have. Those pics came from Van Der Veer Haldex Controller. One of his customers did that & uses his controller to govern it's operation. I'll message him & see if I can get more background. I have no idea what the diff is from, could be VW for all I know, the Haldex has to be to work with VanDerVeer Controller.

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On 4/29/2020 at 11:01 PM, lookforjoe said:

I'll just leave these here - modified Gen5 Haldex dropped into P80 in Europe - using VW Haldex controller

 

Screen-Shot-2020-04-29-at-10-56-55-PM.pn

 

This is pretty interesting and I have a few thoughts.

After seeing Volvo's horrible track record with cast aluminum casings (P80 & P2 angle gear) I can't see something like this being able to withstand the amount of torque & power my setup makes and being able to reliability launch at full power on a prepped surface with slicks. The goal here is a 800hp+ launchable car with repeatability. In my opinion Volvo seems to cheap out on not only the quality of the castings of their aluminum housings but also the design and just make it barely strong enough to work but to keep it as light weight as possible (lots of webbing & thin walls).

On a hard AWD launch due to the front lifting a majority of the torque is usually transferred through the rear meaning the rear needs to able to withstand full engine torque in 1st gear. I get angle gear nightmares thinking about 700-800nm engine torque being sent through that thing.

In terms of raw  strength and reliability I don't think the P80 Cast Iron 1165 diff casing coupled with an aftermarket LSD & 960 MKI axles can be beat.

I am however not writing off the Haldex part of it. I think having Haldex would be awesome, but with a P80 rear diff. I have started putting together designs of a custom housing (with its own oil supply & adapter shaft) to adapt a GEN3 AOC to the P80 rear diff. I will pursue this further if the viscous coupler proves to be the next weak link in my drivetrain.

A break down of the drive train so far...

  1. P2 23 Spline M58 (this combo has been proven to do 800-900bhp AWD and run 9 sec 1/4 mile)
    1. 23 Spline M56HK 4.00 gear set
    2. 23 Spline M56H Stronger 3rd gear from a p1
    3. Quaife LSD
  2. My billet angle gear case design (1000nm engine tq in all gears / 4000nm output torque capable which is 2.66x stronger than volvos strongest AWD on the diesels which is 1500nm angle gear output capable & 4-5x stronger than the P80 & P2 unit)
  3. Stock viscous coupler with welded freewheel unit
  4. 1165 AWD rear diff housing (same as 960 1055/1065) coupled with TruTrac LSD & 27 spline adapter flanges & 960 MKI axles (thicker shaft & CVs over AWD axles, higher spline count)

 

Edited by Simply Volvo
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Sorry - I wasn't implying it was in any way a better or stronger setup compared to your needs. Just a cool mod.

Personally, I don't like the Haldex given the shitty power distribution Volvo/VW etc., set it up for, with no provision for close to 50/50 spilt. With my old wagon & VC I got 50/50 as soon as I got around 350AWHP. I think the weak link of the VC is the freewheel mechanism, at least in my experience, that was always the failure point. I guess if the VC leaks, then the loss of the silicone-based fluid would kill it. Perhaps it will overheat & cook when put through your power levels though. Time will tell on that one.

Back in the 80's I did snap a ring gear (w/Volvo LSD) in two in my old 245TI w/a 50 shot - so it is possible that will fail for you before the housing ever would - I guess that depends on how you can preload the rear to prevent that slack on launch that also exploded my angle drive years ago...

I am going to be using the VnDeVeer Haldex Controller with VW Haldex on my C30. With his controller, I can tailor the torque split anyway I want. We'll see how it goes, all I know is the setup with the Gen3 controller is still less than stellar, too much front spin. With my wagon, there was no drama, just go - I want that in the C30 :)

 

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On 5/1/2020 at 8:51 AM, Simply Volvo said:

[...]

In my opinion Volvo seems to cheap out on not only the quality of the castings of their aluminum housings but also the design and just make it barely strong enough to work but to keep it as light weight as possible (lots of webbing & thin walls).

[...]

There are multiple reasons for why Volvo did things in such a way. It's unreasonable to expect a design that had to take into account multiple constraints - price, weight, packaging, production feasibility and volume - to work well when subjected to conditions outside of the design parameters. 

What adavantage is to be had by welding the freewheeling unit solid? Will changes be made to the braking system to account for the modification?

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12 hours ago, lookforjoe said:

Sorry - I wasn't implying it was in any way a better or stronger setup compared to your needs. Just a cool mod.

Personally, I don't like the Haldex given the shitty power distribution Volvo/VW etc., set it up for, with no provision for close to 50/50 spilt. With my old wagon & VC I got 50/50 as soon as I got around 350AWHP. I think the weak link of the VC is the freewheel mechanism, at least in my experience, that was always the failure point. I guess if the VC leaks, then the loss of the silicone-based fluid would kill it. Perhaps it will overheat & cook when put through your power levels though. Time will tell on that one.

Back in the 80's I did snap a ring gear (w/Volvo LSD) in two in my old 245TI w/a 50 shot - so it is possible that will fail for you before the housing ever would - I guess that depends on how you can preload the rear to prevent that slack on launch that also exploded my angle drive years ago...

I am going to be using the VnDeVeer Haldex Controller with VW Haldex on my C30. With his controller, I can tailor the torque split anyway I want. We'll see how it goes, all I know is the setup with the Gen3 controller is still less than stellar, too much front spin. With my wagon, there was no drama, just go - I want that in the C30 :)

 

Understood. Didn't mean to come off as rude but I've had a lot of backlash from people saying to use a Haldex rear over the P80 and I'm slightly fed up with it 😄 But I understand now.

My VC is in very very good condition. Before I took everything out of the donor I did the test with a torque wrench and the rear wheels locked and it tested perfectly. Also zero sign of silicone leakage. Since I will be drag racing and roll racing in this car where runs only last 10 seconds or so Im not too concerned about the VC overheating. If this were a road racing / time attack / autocross car I could see it overheating quite frequently.

Was this a 1030 or 1031 ring gear? You saying Volvo LSD makes me think 1030 as I believe they came way more frequently in those rears. If so the 1031 gear set (in the AWD 1165 rear casing) is much stronger & larger diameter than the 1030 gear set. Ive talked to a few people over the pond and have been told the 1031 gear sets are very strong and are used in drag racing quite frequently over there and they even swap them into American cars (which is funny cause most people swap American rears into cars with the 1031/1041/etc). There is even a guy with the 1165 AWD rear with 1031 gear set & quaife LSD that he is using in his 1000hp Audi UR Quattro.

3 hours ago, Blockpartie said:

There are multiple reasons for why Volvo did things in such a way. It's unreasonable to expect a design that had to take into account multiple constraints - price, weight, packaging, production feasibility and volume - to work well when subjected to conditions outside of the design parameters. 

What adavantage is to be had by welding the freewheeling unit solid? Will changes be made to the braking system to account for the modification?

No where did I say I expected Volvo to give us bullet proof designs. I was simply stating a fact that their aluminum housings are weak.

Welding the freewheel unit when it breaks will allow torque to continue to be transferred to the rear through the VC as when it breaks you loose all torque transfer to the rear.

Not sure whats gonna happen braking wise, but there are plenty of other VC based AWD systems that don't use a FWM and the rear is pretty under braked anyway. Most likely the FWM was introduced in order to provide more stable breaking on ice... as from reading the volvo docs most of the design decisions of the system have been made around driving in snow / ice.

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