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hcaznacnud

Tuned Volvo 850 Turbo Help

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Hey volvospeed!

I have just recently installed a 20T turbo, 7 cm2 turbo exhaust housing, NA intake and exhaust cams, NA throttle body and air intake, BOSCH EV14 550 cc/min injectors, and an ARD tune. I did this about two days ago now and when I finished putting everything on the car started up fine. I let the car idle for about 5 minutes, and then took the  car for a test drive. As a side note I have swapped the automatic transmission for a manual M56H transmission, this was many months ago. But, I took the car for a test drive and when I would accelerate the car would not respond to the throttle then would backfire a few times, and would then repeat a few more times before the car lost all form of power and stalled itself out. I tried turning the car over but it would only crank not start. The next day I went over a few things to see what could be causing the issue. I pulled the spark plugs out and there was not a single hint of too much fuel. I next checked the shredder valve to be sure I was getting fuel and yes I did have fuel pressure. When I installed the cams which are both from an NA car I retarded the exhaust cam to -4 degrees and the intake cam to -6 degrees. ARD recommended, -4 exhaust and -8 intake, but I thought this a bit much. Does anyone know if the cams are the problem? The only other thing I can think of is that the tune is goofed in some way. The car did start and the car idled down to a beautiful purr but after driving it, which I only did 1/4 to 1/2 throttle (hard to remember but i know the car had to adjust parameters before I really lay into it so I did not go heavy), the car backfired then stalled and will not start again. If anyone has any info they would like to share please do.

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No CELs?

Did you alter the MAF at all?

Do you have your wastegate and BCS all tight and working properly?

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well I do not have a scan tool to check engine codes, but I can tell you when I drove the car the check engine light was off and when I go to crank the car the engine code also disappears.

No I did not alter the MAF, ARD said the stock MAF was fine and can handle the amount of air. I have added a K & N cool air intake hose thou, but I did this before the new turbo and it worked properly.

The wastegate is brand new and I have an upgraded BCS, I will check to make sure I have the connections correct in a bit. 

I appreciate the info, I hope this fixes it because it is going to just as dope as the Catalina Wine Mixer! lol

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I have looked at the BCS connections and they are correct. My only conclusion now is that I have a spark, fuel/air, or compression/timing problem. I believe the fuel is good. I need an extra pair of hands to test spark so I will have to wait on that. I tested compression and I got a really low compression, about 70-80 psi which is terrible and I mean TERRIBLE. This leads me to believe I have a timing issue. Does anyone know what to set NA intake and NA exhuast cams to on a turbo car? I read somewhere it should be 2-3 advance for exhaust and 2-3 retard for intake. If anyone could help out that would be great.

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I was able to get the car started, it was related to the timing being off. I currently have the NA exhuast cam set to -4 and the NA intake cam set to -6. The car is running terrible thou, small backfires every few seconds. If anyone has any suggestions on what to set the cams to that would be great.

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23 hours ago, hcaznacnud said:

well I do not have a scan tool to check engine codes, but I can tell you when I drove the car the check engine light was off and when I go to crank the car the engine code also disappears.

No I did not alter the MAF, ARD said the stock MAF was fine and can handle the amount of air. I have added a K & N cool air intake hose thou, but I did this before the new turbo and it worked properly.

The wastegate is brand new and I have an upgraded BCS, I will check to make sure I have the connections correct in a bit. 

I appreciate the info, I hope this fixes it because it is going to just as dope as the Catalina Wine Mixer! lol

OK - with all these mods... you need a scan tool. Asap.

ARD is wrong. You may want to consider ARD's credibility in these statements - I will let you research that.

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On 5/15/2018 at 2:32 PM, hcaznacnud said:

I was able to get the car started, it was related to the timing being off. I currently have the NA exhuast cam set to -4 and the NA intake cam set to -6. The car is running terrible thou, small backfires every few seconds. If anyone has any suggestions on what to set the cams to that would be great.

What timing was off?  Was a cam gear off by a tooth,  or more?  What's your compression now?

The N/A cams have more overlap than the stock turbo cams.  You want to run at least -4 degrees on the intake just to get back to "stock" HPT overlap.  I'm running -4 intake and +2 to +4 on the exhaust.  By running your settings you've got about 2 degrees more overlap than stock which you don't want.  If you want to leave the intake at -6 then move the exhaust to 0 or even +2. 

Did Lucky actually tell you these settings?  Or did you get this ard tune 2nd hand?

What other mods do you have?  Slapping a 20t on a stock exhaust and intercooler is not going to help engine breathing that much.

Yeah, your stock maf housing will work, but it's not optimum.

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On 5/16/2018 at 9:29 AM, gmsgltr said:

OK - with all these mods... you need a scan tool. Asap.

ARD is wrong. You may want to consider ARD's credibility in these statements - I will let you research that.

Yeah I should get a scan tool, I have been working on cars for too long without a scan tool. Although currently I have no check engine codes, thou my car can still throw codes without the check engine light coming on.

Yeah I understand that a 3.5" inch MAF from a BMW 540i, I believe, is desirable for a diy tuner, but I contacted ARD specifically on this and they said the bigger MAF is unnecessary and they can change the parameters in some way and they aslo stated that they have several cars with stock MAFs above 400 hp, although their credibility is getting rocky, explained a little later.

12 hours ago, gdog said:

What timing was off?  Was a cam gear off by a tooth,  or more?  What's your compression now?

The N/A cams have more overlap than the stock turbo cams.  You want to run at least -4 degrees on the intake just to get back to "stock" HPT overlap.  I'm running -4 intake and +2 to +4 on the exhaust.  By running your settings you've got about 2 degrees more overlap than stock which you don't want.  If you want to leave the intake at -6 then move the exhaust to 0 or even +2. 

Did Lucky actually tell you these settings?  Or did you get this ard tune 2nd hand?

What other mods do you have?  Slapping a 20t on a stock exhaust and intercooler is not going to help engine breathing that much.

Yeah, your stock maf housing will work, but it's not optimum.

When I first tried driving the car I believe the timing belt got lose and the cams jumped timing and the cams went way out of wack and the car stalled to prevent engine damage, which is a good thing. I have now changed the timing belt and have reset the timing. I am currently at 0 exhuast and -6 intake. The car still has a bit of backfire and poor response in some cases so I am going to set the timing to +2 exhaust and -6 intake to see what I get.

I bought a brand new tune, I contacted ARD (not entirely sure if it was lucky specifically whom I talked to) and they said I should do -2 exhaust and stay -6 intake, I tried this and I was backfiring at idle so I moved it to 0 and -6. This is where I began to question ARD.

I agree a 20T on stock everything else is a poor decision. This is everything I have done; full silicone hoses everywhere except oil cooler lines, which will be changed to an RN oil pan getting rid of these,  97 M56H manual transmission swap, full 3" turbo back exhaust, snabb all metal drop in intercooler, accessory oil catch can, NA throttle body and air intake manifold,  bosch ev14 550 cc/min injectors, and Walbro 255 LHP fuel pump, and I'm sure a few other things that I cannot remember.

 

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7 hours ago, hcaznacnud said:

When I first tried driving the car I believe the timing belt got lose and the cams jumped timing and the cams went way out of wack and the car stalled to prevent engine damage, which is a good thing.

I think you may be being a bit optimistic; I'd put the cams at min overlap (e.g. intake -4; ex +2) and ck the compression again.  :blink:

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On 5/17/2018 at 7:16 PM, gdog said:

I think you may be being a bit optimistic; I'd put the cams at min overlap (e.g. intake -4; ex +2) and ck the compression again.  :blink:

Yeah I put the cams to what you stated (-2 exhuast and +4 intake) some days ago now, the car did not backfire or stall at all and she seemed very rigid and like she had some power to unleash. The only problem is that when I tried to drive hard it felt like the same performance as the stock 13g, which was very disappointing. I did not do a compression test with it set at this timing. I did continue to test drive it and It seemed I did not get peak boost until 4000 rpm which seems a tad high. When I hit this peak boost the car would defiantly start pulling and you could feel the power difference but with it being so high in the rpm range that car would redline before getting the full use of the turbo. Therefore, I contacted ARD and they recommended another option which is to set the intake to 0 and the exhaust to +4 so that boost comes in as early as possible. I tried this and the car to my diagnosis was that it was getting too much fuel and would get bogged down and backfire and idle terribly. I am now going to try +4 exhaust and -2 intake, or +2 exhaust and -2 intake. I am still looking for a good setup with everything I have and as of right now +2 exhuast and -4 intake is really the only thing that does not backfire and I get a little performance out of it. I did also try +2 exhaust and -6 intake and the car drove bad as well.

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