47 replies to this topic

[Dana]

I've seen these two young guys driving around together in their twin S2000s the past couple of days. (Draw your own conclusions on that one )

I saw them again tonight when I was out returning movies to the rental place and followed them, hoping to get a piece of action. Luck was on my side when I lined up side by side at a stoplight with one. Then he did the most incredible thing: he threw a little rev my way.

What was I supposed to do? This is what I had been waiting for, so I had to bite. I saw the light for the opposite way turning yellow so I started power braking like crazy to get the boost up quick. As the light went green we left side by side, but the boost kicked in even harder about 10 feet out and I pulled away like a freight train. I got about a car and a half on him across the big intersection, and when I backed off at about 60 MPH I was a good 2 1/2 or 3 lengths ahead.

He did the Ricer Flyby™ and I can see his passenger looking at me with this slackjawed expression. Simply dumbfounded, they were.

We slowed down and talked for a minute and he was totally cool about it. I consoled him by telling him it wasn't often that he was going to run into a 260 HP Volvo wagon.

Rice is nice! Especially when it's in the rearview!

-Dana

[550]

Awesome. But what is power braking? I have not heard this term but may have heard what it is. If it gets the boost up quicker I would like to try it heh.

[kenhoeve]

S2000's are not invincible, but from a stop they're pretty tough to beat if they really hammer on it. They run low 14's stock with a not so good driver. The reason you beat him was simply because he didn't drop the clutch at 7k. There is no way we could beat one out of the hole like the way you did. On a roll it's a different story. Good job, but he just wasn't hammering the way he could of. Something about revving a car to 9k makes one hesitate.

Do you have anything done to your car? You only have 240hp stock. A chip would put you around 270.

Power braking is simply applying the brake to keep you stopped and giving it some throttle at the same time. Helps build boost quicker. You have to finesse it though, too high RPM's off the line can spell traction problems. You have to squeeze in the throttle 1/2 to 3/4 and then slowly advance to WOT. Takes some practice.

[Dana]

Awesome.  But what is power braking?  I have not heard this term but may have heard what it is.  If it gets the boost up quicker I would like to try it heh.

On an automatic tranny car you take your left foot and smash the beejeebus out of the brake pedal (That's the Braking part). Take your right foot and push the gas about half way down and the motor will start to rev and build some boost (The Power part of our equation).

You release the brake and the car takes off like a rocket.

If you employ this technique, you MUST change your tranny fluid often and get a tranny cooler. It will cook the fluid in your tranny VERY quickly because it gets extremely hot when power braking.

-Dana

[550]

Thanks for explaining that I will have to try it, see if I can make it sorta work atleast once, then i will try to improve upon it.

[turbobrick]

dont rev any farther than 2k...

[J0E]

S2000's are not invincible, but from a stop they're pretty tough to beat if they really hammer on it.  They run low 14's stock with a not so good driver.  The reason you beat him was simply because he didn't drop the clutch at 7k.  There is no way we could beat one out of the hole like the way you did. On a roll it's a different story.

kenhoeve, judging from your "on a roll it's a different story", I am making the assumption that you think the S2000 is relatively faster from a dig than from a roll? If so, then unfortunately, you have it backwards. Due to the S2000 inherent lack of low-end torque from its small, high-strung engine, they are not exactly monsters off-the-line. Copious amounts of torque is what is necessary for a stoplight racer, but that is not what the S2000 is in the least bit. Yes, when launched at very high RPMs, they can take off, but that usually results in wheel spin. If not, a broken rear-end. Conversely, on the freeway, they fly. Their main [hah...only ] power is in the last 33% of their rev range which makes the car very quick once there, and their short gearing makes sure the car remains in the meat of powerband above 6K once underway.

That said, properly driven, the S2000 should have won be it from a roll or off-the-line.

[Dana]

S2000's are not invincible, but from a stop they're pretty tough to beat if they really hammer on it.  They run low 14's stock with a not so good driver.  The reason you beat him was simply because he didn't drop the clutch at 7k.  There is no way we could beat one out of the hole like the way you did.  On a roll it's a different story.  Good job, but he just wasn't hammering the way he could of.  Something about revving a car to 9k makes one hesitate.

Do you have anything done to your car?  You only have 240hp stock.  A chip would put you around 270.

Power braking is simply applying the brake to keep you stopped and giving it some throttle at the same time.  Helps build boost quicker.  You have to finesse it though, too high RPM's off the line can spell traction problems.  You have to squeeze in the throttle 1/2 to 3/4 and then slowly advance to WOT.  Takes some practice.

Nah. He was spinning them hard. See the problem is his 9000 RPM car loses about 28% of it's horsepower up here at 7000 feet in Santa Fe.

I have raced many many many S2000's at the drag strip in Albuquerque at 5300 feet elevation. A stock S2000 with a good driver will consistently run a 15.1@93 mph. In fact, there is a fellow with a Vortech supercharged S2000 who frequents a forum I'm a moderator on over at Racing Southwest. His best time to date is a 14.1@102 mph. Pretty sad, huh?

So, what I'm proposing is highly probably. My old WRX had a Perrin Downpipe, JDM STi up-pipe, K&N drop in, Greddy profec boost controller and a 2.5" cat back and I ran a consistent 14.0@94 mph with an average 60' time of 1.90. My best time ever in the WRX in Albuquerque was a 13.94@94.59 and my best MPH ever was on a 13.97@96.02. I would post 8.9 second 8th mile times and then it would fall on it's face choking for air on the top end. A stock WRX at sea level is good for a 14.4@94+ mph. I was launching like a mofo and power shifting to get those times and I was barely running a better MPH!

Sorry for the rant, but I know what I'm doing when it comes to racing because this is atleast the fourth turbo car I've owned and about the 20th I've worked on.

EDIT: what I'm trying to get at is that the big engine in the Volvo combined with the massive torque available to me off the line hurt him in a bad way. He complained that his car "Didn't have a very good take off" (his words, not mine!).

I have an IPD ECU and a K&N drop-in filter in my 850R, so I figure I'm good for 260 HP at sea level, and around 220 up here, while that poor fella was stuck with around 170 or less.

-Dana

Edited by Dana, 08 April 2004 - 05:52 AM.

[kenhoeve]

I was thinking more of a slow roll, say 10-20 mph. Didn't mean highway. I beat one pretty handily from that speed and he was definitely trying.

Thanks for the explanation Dana, the elevation would definitely hurt them!!

Joe, you got trumped by lack of oxygen. Care to reconsider?

Edited by kenhoeve, 08 April 2004 - 05:53 AM.

[Dana]

OK, I overestimated his loss today. It was nice and cold, so it wasn't as bad for him as I thought. I calculated that 28% number last summer and it's the one I've use since, but the density altitude was up over 10,000 feet that day.

Here's what I calculated:
Air Temp: 53.1 F
Altimeter: 30.00 inches
Dew Point: 39.9
Altitude: 7000

Relative Horsepower: 77.4%
Density Altitude: 8272 Feet
Absolute Pressure: 23.15 inHg
Dyno Correction Factor: 1.292

All of this was calculated using tools from:
This Freaky Looking Dude

-Dana

[J0E]

Ok...elevation changes things a bit.

[Denzien]

Poetry of the Heart

[Dana]

Poetry of the Heart

Explain that one to the n00b?

I'm lost..........

I'm heading to the dragstrip on saturday if the Darn rain will stop, and I'm hoping to atleast dip into the 14's if I can get a good launch. This car is like a FWD Buick Grand National or something. I love it

-Dana

[VS Legend]

Poetry of the Heart

Explain that one to the n00b?

I'm lost..........

So am I. what are you trying to say?

[Mesoam]

dana....i like when people know what they are talking about! good kill showing those fun boys who's boss

[VS Legend]

Problem with a lot of S2000 drivers is they wont even rev it to 9000rpms. They get up around 7000 and get scared. Still, even if they rev to 9000 a modded 850 should be able to hand them all their collective asses on a silver platter. Good show, Dana.

550 - Power breaking is a good thing to learn. Your times and from a stop performances will improve immensely if you get it down well. Even if your boost doesn't build up much your torque will (especially on a Volvo Turbo (our torque comes up pretty low I think) and you'll get a much quicker start.

[J0E]

A stock S2K will pose no threat on the highway to a slightly modified 850/70 series or a Volvo similar to those in power w/merely a chip and exhaust... assuming the chip doesnt give you -5 hp of course 

Keep telling yourself that. Until we see these "slightly modified" 850/70-Series Volvos running through the traps at ~100, that is only a pipe dream. So far, most have another 3-5 MPH to go to merely stay even with an S2000, let alone have it "pose no threat."