19 replies to this topic

[Searay Jim]

I didn't go back and dig up the old thread so I'm starting a new one!

After about a month of what I thought was clear sailing, the CEL came on again and yep, P0401, AGAIN. Dealer said absolutly the air pump. Replaced the pump and valve and it's still there (same as with the cold weather start 1-2 minutes of howling).

1998 seems to be a unique year for the SAS so what else could there be in the SAS besides the pump and valve, and relay which in 1998 is in the fuse box, not on the pump like other years.

FYI, the CEL came on while idling, in park after it was fully warmed up and had been driving for a while. Previously is t was coming on when idling in Drive and what appeared to be all the other conditions were met for the self test, running for over 10 minutes, fully warmed up, in Drive and at idle. It's possible it threw just before putting in in park, but I'm almost certain it was in park already.

We have a potential buyer for the car and although this seems to not be any big deal, I want to have it resolved, but I don't want to end up paying a dealer to throw parts at it like the other member had done.

Any ideas on the P0401 and what else "I" can throw parts at?

Edited by Searay Jim, 24 May 2005 - 05:37 PM.

[RWagin]

I am unable to assist with your problem but most members have the better luck when their profile has information and you list your location.

[jda2000]

You need to understand how the SAS system works, or you'll be screwed by the dealer or indie to replace the pump, the valve and the relay everytime for big bucks.

The air pump only comes during cold startups, and only for 30 sec or so, to reduce emissions.

The pump fails much much later after the sas valve has failed open.

First the valve fails and water vapor from engine combustion condenses into water and drains back into the pump because of its lower location. Is the water pooling in the pump after many cycles that eventually leads to rust and failure of the pump.

So, replacing just the sas valve should solve the problem. Also drill a 1/8" hole at the lowest portion of the pump to allow water to drain.

Jim you need to be proactive or you'll get screwed everytime

[Searay Jim]

You need to understand how the SAS system works, or you'll be screwed by the dealer or indie to replace the pump, the valve and the relay everytime for big bucks.

The air pump only comes during cold startups, and only for 30 sec or so, to reduce emissions.

The pump fails much much later after the sas valve has failed open.

First the valve fails and water vapor from engine combustion condenses into water and drains back into the pump because of its lower location. Is the water pooling in the pump after many cycles  that eventually leads to rust and failure of the pump.

So, replacing just the sas valve should solve the problem. Also drill a 1/8" hole at the lowest portion of the pump to allow water to drain.

Jim you need to be proactive or you'll get screwed everytime

 

I've already replace the valve and the pump. Everything pointed at them but something else is throwing the code.

by the way, as I understand, the '98 also does a self test once warmed up. It seems that is when the code it being thrown. On cold starts it appears to be working fine. The howling that the dealer said was the pump, was not the pump. There's another thread that's died off now, that details the saga of the howl of me and another member. Unfortunatly the other member has paid the dealer close to $1000 in parts for several things that they gauranteed was the howling.

I'll update my profile. I was certain I had location and car listed, but maybe not?

[Bay13]

I wish I could help but that P code I can't convert to a specific Volvo code. I know with the Volvo Scan tool I can run the test and determine what is causing the code to reset. If you could find a knowledgable tech that knows how to use the Volvo Scan tool it would be worth the diag cost to actually put the right part on the car.

[Searay Jim]

Back to the top.

I broke down and took it to the dealer. They say the CEL is being thrown by a check valve and vacuum elbow - actually 2 problems: clogged check valve and vacuum leak at the elbow.

I haven't been able to get much more detail on the SAS for the '98's but this sounds as thoguh it could also be what causes the howling at cold start up; when it's a cold enough out.

They're quoting about $300 to do it. I'm going now to see if I can find the part(s) on FCP but it would be a huge help to see some kind of diagram or hear some feedback on where this check valve is.

[Bay13]

What are the codes, I'm sure you have paid for the dealer to pull them from the car. If I knew the codes I could help out. Not sure about the check valve, the air pump system doesn't have one. The elbows, well they are all over the car.

[Searay Jim]

He's gone for the day, but I didn't confrm if they found other codes. The only check valve is the one that I replaced with the air pump. I don't know if the "elbow" they're talking about is where the valve installs, but he also said they figured in replacing all the vacuum lines as well. They were in good shape but I suppose there could be something else.

I'm just really uncomfortable with him telling me the "check valve" is plugged when I just replaced it on their suggestion from when the code first showed up.

I'm going to hit him up in the AM and try to get him to explain exactly what they found. I have a feeling he's not going to be able to tell me without a lot of studdering and back stepping.

[MrWinkey]

OK I can help on the conversion ...I assume you mean P0410 because 0401 does not exist ...Rich that specific code converts to 442/445/446 and 448 I'm not even gonna comment on this one being that the 3 major component's have been replaced but it is possible that there is leakage at the hoses , possibly the vacuum issue they said fixed it(short comment)

[Searay Jim]

When I had it pulled, it was a P0401 - Secondary Air System.

Is the P0410 the SAS? Could be the first one was wrong.

I also got a diag. of the SAS. I'm now wondering if it's the "Solenoid valve" but again, I'll have to wait until tomorrow morning to find out. I can't believe that part is $170, dealer retail even.



Hope this may help others with this issue as well. Is anyone knows the workings of the Solenoid valve (#18 in the pic) that might soilve the mystery of the cold start howling.

[Bay13]

I see your check valve now. It's on the engine side of the actuator, and it makes sence for one to be there. They are easy to test, just blow in them.

[Searay Jim]

DOH!! #22 check valve is what I meant. That makes sense to be plugged at 76k miles, but I'll check it too. It also makes sense to be making the howling, and with what little was was able to do tracing the sound, that is in the perfect spot!

Man, $400 in parts so far and it may come down to that one blasted little check valve.

Thanks again Bay 13!!

[Searay Jim]

Got the car back.

I specifficly asked to make sure the codes were on the ticket, so I hope these are them

ECM 448/442

Does that make sense?

Diagnosis is a "posibly check valve clogged also an air leak". SW said through troubleshooting the tech found no vacuum and isolated it to the "new" check valve.

So I go out and look hard at everything and find that the rubber connector at the check valve to the vacuum line going to the acuator is cracked about 40% of the way around at the nipple on the valve!!!! Suppose that could cause a vacuum leak? DOH!! And if you have a vacuum leak upstream of the check valve, think the check valve won't function properly? Darn they piss me off. A $2 rubber connector that was obviously cracked. I'm just pissed that I didn't look harder for little things like that before taking it to them to have them charge me $88 for them to try to give me a stiffy.

I've got it termporarily sealed until I can get new connectors for all of the easy to get to valves and accuator because most of them just about crumble in my fingers although they look good. The others would be easy to crack so I'm afraid to try ot pull the $21 plastic check valve to see if it's clear.

I reset the CEL and we'll see how it does.

[Searay Jim]

Bump!

Any insight on ECM 448/442? Are those codes that corespond to the P0401?

[MrWinkey]

Aahhh did you see my original post? guess not? #9

[PorBleemo]

I am unable to assist with your problem but most members have the better luck when their profile has information and you list your location.

 

So much for newbs jumping on the bandwagon about listing location. After being asked nicely I didn't mind putting it in. But being told that I won't receive help because I didn't is downright rude.

[Searay Jim]

Aahhh did you see my original post? guess not? #9

 

DOH!! Ya, I saw it...no it didn't register appearently! LOL

It makes sense. I replaced the connector today. $2.95 + tax at teh dealer. You think a tech would look at the logic. New valve, vacuum leak upstream, random code, hmmmm, maybe the vacuum leak is not allowing the valve to function fully, to the point that every noew and then it won't open at all, thus throwing a code about a vacuum leak, and the vlave appearing to be clogged (as in not fully open).

And I paid them $88 for that crap. Oh well, I think it's fixed. It's too warm for it to howl when started now, so I guess if it's still doing it, that'll be for the next owner if it bugs them that much!

Thanks!!

[2005V70R]

Is the Check Valve (#10) the same thing as the SAS valve?

[jda2000]

Yes, check valve #10 is the SAS valve