167 replies to this topic

[Michael V70T5]

they have done everything for volvo

they have LEFT volvo alone and let them keep working on thier cars which is the BEST thing ford could of ever done for volvo.

So you want ford to of done with volvo what GM did with saab eh?

Actually you have a VERY good point.

I didn't think of it that way.

[ACBarnett]

I heard that GM was buying Volvo. That way they can rebadge an S60 as a new Pontiac/Buick/Chevy... and give Volvos crappy interiors. Then they'll put the Ecotech engines in Volvos, and the new XC90 will be a Chevy Blazer with new badges.

And I bet some of you think that I'm kidding!

Don't remind me, at least my opel vectra has the REAL saab engine. The Ecotec thing isn't so bad as it might seem though, saab has never had an in-house engine design. The ld two-stroke wasa DKW engine, the V4 was a ford engine, the engine in my 2000 9-5 aero is basically the same engine that was in the ~1970 triumph dolemite with a new head and balance shafts, and the ecotecs in the 9-3's are heavily modified compared to the base ecotec in your average cobalt. The same goes for the V6's.

I used to hate alot of GM's decisions with saab, especially the 9-2x and the 9-7x, but now that GM has admitted that those models were half-assed stopgaps and is replacing them with the 9-4x and the 9-1 I have a bit more respect for them. I see it this way, whereas under ford, volvo has killed the R-line, made the S40/V50 into a car that's inferior in every way to the jetta yet sells for $5k more while allowing the S80 to balloon into an overpriced swedish DTS wannabe, under GM saab's actually making a halfway reliable car, the 9-3 is a great performance deal for the money and we finally get AWD. Not just any AWD either, but a torque-shifting system that's supposed give audi's true quattro systems a run for their money. To top it off, they're making a 320hp version of the new AWD 9-3 aero that will sell for ~38k.

They might be moving 9-3 production to germany, but then again, all the S60R's and V70R's were made in belgium and nobody questions their swedish-ness

My first choice for a company to buy volvo would be volvo truck/penta/everything else, just because they don't have an existing sport/luxury line to slot volvo under and therefore would be the most likely to let the brand mature into something a bit more like mercedes or audi. My second choice would be renault, for the same reason that they need a true european luxury division, nissan is building some of the best engines in the world right now, and I would love to see what carlos ghosn could do with the brand considering his turnaround with infiniti.

My last choice would be BMW because they already have a premium line, they already are THE name in sporting luxury cars, and under their ownership I can only see volvo languishing behind as a line of stodgy, reliable safety-barges aimed at the people who would normally buy a lexus over a BMW. There will most likely be little to no platform or engine sharing between the brands, and the only good that could come of it might be nicer interior materials and build quality. If we're really lucky they'll spare volvo from the joys of shift-by-wire, idrive, and "active steering".

[matt b]

July 26, 2007

Ford swung to a $750 million net profit in the second quarter, as the No. 2 U.S. auto maker posted $600 million in cost savings. The company confirmed it is exploring a sale of its Jaguar and Land Rover businesses, and announced a strategic review for Volvo.

For more information, see: http://WSJ.com?mod=djemalert

So close, yet so far.....

[volvo4lif3]

Don't remind me, at least my opel vectra has the REAL saab engine. The Ecotec thing isn't so bad as it might seem though, saab has never had an in-house engine design. The ld two-stroke wasa DKW engine, the V4 was a ford engine, the engine in my 2000 9-5 aero is basically the same engine that was in the ~1970 triumph dolemite with a new head and balance shafts, and the ecotecs in the 9-3's are heavily modified compared to the base ecotec in your average cobalt. The same goes for the V6's.

I used to hate alot of GM's decisions with saab, especially the 9-2x and the 9-7x, but now that GM has admitted that those models were half-assed stopgaps and is replacing them with the 9-4x and the 9-1 I have a bit more respect for them. I see it this way, whereas under ford, volvo has killed the R-line, made the S40/V50 into a car that's inferior in every way to the jetta yet sells for $5k more while allowing the S80 to balloon into an overpriced swedish DTS wannabe, under GM saab's actually making a halfway reliable car, the 9-3 is a great performance deal for the money and we finally get AWD. Not just any AWD either, but a torque-shifting system that's supposed give audi's true quattro systems a run for their money. To top it off, they're making a 320hp version of the new AWD 9-3 aero that will sell for ~38k.

They might be moving 9-3 production to germany, but then again, all the S60R's and V70R's were made in belgium and nobody questions their swedish-ness

My first choice for a company to buy volvo would be volvo truck/penta/everything else, just because they don't have an existing sport/luxury line to slot volvo under and therefore would be the most likely to let the brand mature into something a bit more like mercedes or audi. My second choice would be renault, for the same reason that they need a true european luxury division, nissan is building some of the best engines in the world right now, and I would love to see what carlos ghosn could do with the brand considering his turnaround with infiniti.

My last choice would be BMW because they already have a premium line, they already are THE name in sporting luxury cars, and under their ownership I can only see volvo languishing behind as a line of stodgy, reliable safety-barges aimed at the people who would normally buy a lexus over a BMW. There will most likely be little to no platform or engine sharing between the brands, and the only good that could come of it might be nicer interior materials and build quality. If we're really lucky they'll spare volvo from the joys of shift-by-wire, idrive, and "active steering".

Well, you have in wrong in every way about saab. I just got another s60 because the 9-3 vector and aero models are junk. I talked to some saab owners on this board, chambs T5-R, looked up ratings online, and people's reviews, and they all said the same thing-Electrical problems, and poor quality material. A majority of folk had to keep bringing their car in because in the cold their car's electrical system would all of a sudden fail. I forgot to mention that the interior of the saab is cheap plastic, and rattles to say the least. Sure, the aero has tons of stuff stock that my s60 2.5T doesn't have, but at least my car is more reliable up to this point. My interior feels like higher quality material was used. So many negatives about their cars made me not choose it. Don't think saab is so superior over volvo, because it isn't. Any car company is going to have pros and cons to a car, thats just what happens. Volvo is a good family car designed for safety first, not for styling or power. My vote still goes with volvo.

[ACBarnett]

Well, you have in wrong in every way about saab. I just got another s60 because the 9-3 vector and aero models are junk. I talked to some saab owners on this board, chambs T5-R, looked up ratings online, and people's reviews, and they all said the same thing-Electrical problems, and poor quality material. A majority of folk had to keep bringing their car in because in the cold their car's electrical system would all of a sudden fail. I forgot to mention that the interior of the saab is cheap plastic, and rattles to say the least. Sure, the aero has tons of stuff stock that my s60 2.5T doesn't have, but at least my car is more reliable up to this point. My interior feels like higher quality material was used. So many negatives about their cars made me not choose it. Don't think saab is so superior over volvo, because it isn't. Any car company is going to have pros and cons to a car, thats just what happens. Volvo is a good family car designed for safety first, not for styling or power. My vote still goes with volvo.

Just try to pretend that the 2003 9-3's (like your vector) didn't happen, other than those I've heard nothing really bad about the new cars. The 2003-2006 interior kinda blew though, the new one is a big improvement, though still not up to volvo's standards. That said the mechanicals of the new saabs seem pretty bulletproof, and you can't beat their crash ratings.

[volvo4lif3]

Don't forget that GM's are known for their eletrical failures. I will never own a GM product.

[waldendan]

talking about the GM/SAAB deal, GM does such a great job with SAAB!!, just look at last years sales numbers GM would be the end of VOLVO as we know it, at least thats what I think.

[matt b]

Don't forget that GM's are known for their eletrical failures. I will never own a GM product.

They've pretty much fixed those. The GM products were the most reliable products in my rental fleet, and that was a year ago. My father in law has had his HHR for a year now and it has been 100% trouble free.

[maxx999]

Man i can't belive this topic is still going strong.......Lemme know who buys Volvo out though "Fingers crossed" - BMW lol i know it won't happen though

[volvo4lif3]

That's why GM owners are so upset that after their wonderful 100k miles expires, there tranny and other things go right along with it. Read some of the reviews online about Saab and how not so wonderful they are. Face it, they are built like they used to be. Gm has eletrical problems, especially with oldmobile. Hell, I had a 98 blazer back in my teenage years and after my tranny went at 50k, everything else did along with horrible rattles from the plastic inside. If you like they so much, go try your luck with them. At this point i'd rather have a ford.

[TM850R]

I didnt think they made Oldsmobiles anymore. I also didnt think that GM's were known for electrical problems. Thats a pretty broad statement if I have ever heard one. Dont get me wrong, I most likely would never buy a GM vehicle but I dont see the need to say their cars are the worst thing on the planet.

[info2x]

Yeah Olds was canned a few years ago. They did consider bringing it back in China since Buick is doing so well over there.

[TM850R]

Buick does well over there because its not the same Buick that is in the US. The Buick in China is a combo effort between Buick and Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp. Group. They decided that Buick is expected to be well built with attention to quality in China. There was an article that I read a couple weeks ago that had a Reuters reporter that visited China and checked out a couple of the Buicks over there and said that they are nothing like the Buicks in the US. Thats rather disappointing. An American car manufacturer doesnt hold high standards for their cars in the US but does in China.

[info2x]

Buick does well over there because its not the same Buick that is in the US. The Buick in China is a combo effort between Buick and Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp. Group. They decided that Buick is expected to be well built with attention to quality in China. There was an article that I read a couple weeks ago that had a Reuters reporter that visited China and checked out a couple of the Buicks over there and said that they are nothing like the Buicks in the US. Thats rather disappointing. An American car manufacturer doesnt hold high standards for their cars in the US but does in China.

They had a fresh start over there. The chinese also don't have the mental image of Buick being an old person car. Buick does have some cooler stuff in the pipeline though.

[Stormtrooper1]

They had a fresh start over there. The chinese also don't have the mental image of Buick being an old person car. Buick does have some cooler stuff in the pipeline though.

Buick's got some nice stuff. the hardest thing for them is like you said getting over the old person stigma. That and Every Car on the Freeway going 15 miles (or more) under the speed limit is a blue haired old lady in her buick.

We Test drove a LaCrosse for the wife and it was a nice car, just out of our price range at the time.

Before I purchased my Old Grand Prix, I drove a Regal which is pretty much the same car, I didn't like the Giant expanse of dash. passed another regal during the test drive and it was a old lady and that giant dash was encrusted with beanie babies.

I thought Olds was doing well with the re-imaging when they killed that line. I still like the original Aurora.

Edited by Stormtrooper1, 29 July 2007 - 05:46 PM.

[info2x]

Yeah. I like the new Lucern with the V8 northstar engine in it. I got pulled over in one.

[ACBarnett]

I still cross my fingers and pray that GM wisens up and builds a buick riviera based off of the new camaro. With the build quality that the enclave has they could make a great GT car in the 35-40k pricerange and it would do wonders to change the brand image.



Ok my real reason I want them to do it is so that they'll have a body with which to bring back the grand national. A turbocharged LS-engine or northstar derivative making ~500 hp would be the absolute balls. Make it so it's not quite as fast as the Z06, but a stage 1 or 2 ECU flash away from being damn near undriveable. Now that would be hot.

[LoveMyS60]

All the new posts will be: "How can a squeeze a few more MPG out of my I4?"

You people make me laugh.

First, Volvo probably won't be sold. Ford has publicly put Aston Martin (already sold) and Jag/Rover on the block. If they were interested in selling Volvo, why wouldn't they have done the same? All there ever has been was RUMOR that Volvo would be sold. Furthermore, last year Volvo and Rover made a profit. Right now Ford needs all the profit it can find. They're probably digging thru the sofas in the corporate lobbies. Rover has to be sold, profit or not, because Jag is losing more money than Rover is making and Jag and Rover share production facilities. They have to be sold as a pair.

Volvo, on the other hand, is more closely integrated with Ford than any of the other Premier brands are. (For those that don't know, S40 shares the Mazda3 platform, the new S80 is built on a Ford platform, etc).

If Volvo is, indeed profitable, Ford has no reason to sell until they reach a serious cash crunch. Despite their recent fortunes, I read somewhere that Ford still has about $20bn in the bank.

Second, even if Volvo is sold, such a transaction would take a year or so to execute (Chrysler is still part of Daimler despite being sold 3 months ago). And even after the new company takes ownership, do you have any idea how long it would take to actually affect the product pipeline? Cars have lead times of 4, 5, 6 years.

Third, when talking about suitors, it's asinine to speculate. When Ford bough Volvo it was bidding against VW and Fiat. I've also heard BMW and Renault being tossed around this time, as well as Huyndai. And the notion that if BMW bought it, it will somehow increase the value of the brand (magically) but if Hyundai bought it it would somehow decrease it? That doesn't make much sense if you ask me.

I also see it as: What would BMW do with a near-luxury Volvo brand (which could never get TOO good that it would take from the flagship marquee) VS. what would Hyundai do to solidify what would become their flagship marquee? Check out their new "Genesis" platform: http://images.motortrend.com/features/auto...+front_view.jpg ....it really is impressive.

I get the feeling that Volvo would be the "red headed stepchild" of a premium German brand, but it would be the crown jewel of a company not yet known for its luxury offerings.

If anybody doubts Hyundai's ability to crack into the Lux market, all they need to do is take a long hard look at the history of Acura, Infiniti, and, of course, Lexus. And these are home-grown offerings.

To put it another way... Imagine contacting "Corporate" to complain of a problem with your new Volvo. If you call BMW, you're calling about one of their lesser products. You're not even GERMAN. You're not even at MINI level. Volvo would be to BMW what GEO was to GM. Now, if you call Hyundai to complain about a problem with your new Volvo, this is their ultra brand. This is going to get the most attention, resources, etc, from Corporate. Volvo is to Hyundai what Cadillac is to GM.

[LoveMyS60]

What's funny is that Ford went on a spending spree a while back and acquired all of these other motor companies... formed PAG. Now they're cash poor (short sighted bastages), so they're hurting, and they might have to sell their only really profitable company.

I kind of wish that Ford had bought a minority interest in Volvo, like they did with Mazda. Mazda keeps its separation from Ford, Ford doesn't muck around in the cars that Mazda wants to produce, and there's some decent platform and powertrain sharing happening.

Ford is many things but cash poor is NOT one of them. They've got, what, $20bn in the bank right now?

[c70turbo5]

Ford is many things but cash poor is NOT one of them. They've got, what, $20bn in the bank right now?

Yes and no

Ford Automotive group had 278,554,000 in total assets at the end of 2006 and also had 282,019,000 in total liabilities..... you don't have to be a CFO to realize whats going on... it's like having a $1000 credit card payment when you only make $800 a month. hence selling Volvo would get thier assets above liabilities once again

For furter review look Here

Edited by c70turbo5, 01 August 2007 - 06:36 PM.