mattsk8

Haven't listened to much Donald Fagen, but I'm definitely a Steely Dan fan. Not all of it, I either love it or hate it. I want to experiment with tapped horn subwoofer cabinets. Anyone here ever play with these?? The main issue is the size of them, they're generally HUGE. But it would be fun to play with and see just how much boom you could draw from a 6.5" or 8" woofer in one of these cabinets. From what I've read they're the cleanest, most efficient sub cabinets you can build.

That's almost exactly how it played out with me as well. "If I can double the storage with this setting, why in the world wouldn't I?"

Yes and no. I could have if I wouldn't have already downloaded it in the format I used originally. I didn't know anything about MP3, AAC, lossless, etc when I first got the iPod and started dumping all my music. I had my CD collection stolen out of my Tahoe years ago, so I was then at the mercy of everything I already did. In the beginning I didn't have a clue, and just used iTune's factory setting which is the worst, most compressed. I've figured that out since then and all my newer music gets dumped in the highest bit rate, but you can't undo it if you already downloaded in a more compressed format (you can't go up, only down). But still not lossless, I haven't tried that yet. That said, I'm still learning and if there's a way to undo that damage, I'm all ears (any way to up the bitrate of the music I already downloaded). Just being honest, I'm still not hugely savvy with all the different formats, but I am learning and would love to hear what you guys do. I also have a really good Marantz SACD player, and I use that most of the time for critical listening. But in my shop where I build the speakers, my only source is either my PC or my iPod.

Definitely keep us posted as to the issue. This will get interesting. I go to a lot of shows, I'm going to one in Louisville next weekend. I HATE the typical audiophile jazz crap, it doesn't make sense to me to demo speakers using music that makes a Sony alarm clock radio sound good. I run a pretty large gamut of music when I initially test speakers I'm finishing or that I've built (or equipment), and I actually use an iPod simply because of the large amount of different songs. I know it's compressed, but I can hear what I'm looking for. For instance... how well you can hear the depth of the mandolin that comes in at about 58 seconds in Billy Joel's Piano Man, not necessarily a song I ride around listening to all the time, but great for hearing the soundstage a speaker presents. Or the guitar in Alice In Chain's Nutshell; how defined it sounds and how well they separate the different strums is great for knowing they're voiced well, a lot of times this is right where a speaker is crossed over (in the 2k-3.5k range) and the depth of this song will tell you if the speakers are summed well. I also like a lot of Dire Straits, Fleetwood Mac's The Chain, etc. Quite a bit of different music, I could go on and on and I'm sure I'll keep thinking of other songs I use. A couple rap songs or hip hop as well, even some country (Allan Jackson's Blues Man, Alison Krauss if you consider that country). For figuring out how well they take abuse, Infected Mushroom's Saeed, and Metallica's Dyer's Eve at insane volume levels,. And believe it or not, the Melvins Honey Bucket; but I've heard speakers that were pretty good fall apart during the first ~58 seconds of this song when they were punished.

Interests: Hitting VTEC

I want to do a full rear quarter conversion on a Roadmaster wagon. Someday...

I've purchased separate drivers that came from the factory wired out of phase at the voice coil; it was a kit that I had built in the past, and was building this one for someone else. We hooked them up and they just sounded lifeless and terrible. After a bunch of brainstorming I finally got to the issue of them being wired backwards at the voice coil, and these weren't cheap woofers either. Ever since then I use a AA battery to test every driver I get. Not sure how you would test for that in a multiway speaker that's already assembled (where you don't have the option to test each individual driver), mainly because I'm sure KEF wouldn't be fond of you pulling the woofers out (possibly void the warranty?). Do NOT use the battery method with tweeters, only woofers and midwoofers. I would play a heavy bass track and make sure the speakers all fire the same way when the bass hits. If one is different from the rest, there's your problem. Regarding the wiring... you'll wire the Niles box's input to the Front Main A on the back of the Denon. If it were me, I would still pull each individual speaker down to make sure polarity is correct and that everything is wired right. To see which wires go where, when you have a speaker out and can access the wires going to the speaker, simply twist the 2 wires together, then take a volt meter set to beep when the pos and neg leads are touching and go to the Niles box... put the pos lead from the volt meter on one wire, then test every other wire with the neg lead until the volt meter beeps. As you figure things out, mark the wires with a pc of tape. It'll take a while and it's obviously easier with 2 people, but that's the way to know for sure that it's wired right. Edit: If you don't have a volt meter and/or aren't familiar with wiring, this ^^ is probably sounding pretty confusing. If that's the case let me know and I'll try to explain better.

I haven't played with anything short of Audyssey or Yamaha's YPAO. I have an Omnimic that works through my PC, that actually does a phenomenal job of taking measurements but obviously there's no auto correction or time delay; all I can do is measure, then adjust accordingly.

And he is, pretty sure he has a new 6 so good call.

Yes, as long as none of the wires were messed with (the wires in your house) you should just be able to plug it in. It'll def do everything that Niles amp they recommended will, plus you'll have a tuner. First turn all your wall volumes down, then plug that Denon in and set the Denon's volume somewhere that's the max you would like to be able to turn up the speakers. You could also get a good BT device to plug into the receiver and possibly be able to control what you listen to using your phone.

:wub: What's that guy do for a living?? Just shooting from the hip, with those new speakers that's in the ballpark of a $50k system; right??

Mainly because the sound quality from a cheaper 90s Dolby PL receiver sucks even in 2 ch stereo mode, but that Denon I linked is actually a pretty solid receiver. And you're right, it definitely can disable the different sound fields and whatnot and just play in 2 ch stereo mode. Going with a used NAD, Adcom, etc would be good but the receiver route is the cheapest option. That Denon was $70 shipped

At this point I would just go to CL and find a decent used receiver that fits that power, I think you could find something easily for less than $100. Try to make sure it's just a stereo receiver and not a home theater receiver (if it says Dolby ProLogic don't get it). From there you can hook anything you want to that receiver (ipod, cd player, etc) and you'll already have a tuner if you listen to the radio. Actually I might go this route even though it is a HT receiver. It'll still work for what you're doing. http://www.ebay.com/itm/DENON-AVR-3200-RECEIVER-/361096362214?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item54130538e6

What do you do?? Keep me posted on how they sound, I've never heard those KEFs before. Is it a music system or is he using them in a HT system? Or both music and HT? What's he driving them with??

You buy those?!! Very nice indeed!!

I def understand that, and my wife would love something like that in our house even if they didn't sound all that amazing. So next step is to figure out what speakers they are and go from there. Let me know what you figure out, and I can also help you find a receiver or an amp based on what Niles tells you. I'm hoping they'll recommend something they sell, and if it's too much you could find something used for cheap that'll work. Or you could get that amp I linked, but you'd still need to know what speakers those are.

Here's some options and I'll do my best to explain what I think you have there... The good- Your whole house is wired to one location for speakers. The bad- I'm guessing those speakers aren't very good. I could definitely be wrong, but before I invested any money I would look into what kind of speakers they are. Another issue I personally have is that its tough to get sound quality out of ceiling speakers simply because of the axis they play at, and the surroundings. So, it depends entirely on what you're looking for out of it (don't expect them to "rock the joint" in terms of volume and sound quality). That said, you basically have 2 options. If sound quality isn't your main concern, then move forward and figure out what you need to feed that Niles box (an amp or receiver and what kind of power it should have). To figure that out I would call Niles, there's a phone # on their website that I linked up above. Another option would be too eliminate that Niles box and get something like this http://www.parts-express.com/pyle-pt8000ch-19-rack-mount-8000-watt-8-ch-amplifier--310-2560

Hopefully something would be either printed or stuck to the speaker's magnet. If not, you can (generically) tell the ohms using a volt meter. This might get tricky too because some ceiling speakers have switchable resistance, you can switch between 16, 8 or 4 ohms. I think it would be obvious if you pulled one out and looked, there will be a switch somewhere near one of the 2 input leads on the speaker. As far as how to get them out... I'm guessing the grill snaps on, and the speaker is mounted in some sort of box; you can probably access the speaker after you pull the grill off. If you can't see screws in the grills, the grill probably just snaps on (and off) somehow.

Short version is you'll need an amp (or possibly just a receiver) to drive those ceiling speakers, but you'll need to figure out what ohms the ceiling speakers are first. How much do you know about stereos? Only asking because that'll help me help you without giving you too much info. Here's the manual for that Niles hub... http://www.nilesaudio.com/images/PDF/VCSHUB8_manual.pdf My only concern is how the ohms work with it, or how it wires all those speakers to the amp's input; you'll need to know the impedance (ohms) of the speakers you have there now so we can make sure you won't put too much load on whatever amp you use to drive them and potentially burn it up. For instance, it'll get wired differently if they're 16 ohm speakers vs if they're 8 or 4 ohm speakers. Edit: After some reading, it somehow does something using the volume controls with the impedance. Here's a link for (what I think is) the volume control you have, there's another link on that webpage for the volume control's manual... http://www.nilesaudio.com/product.php?prodID=LVW-1&recordID=High%20Power%20Stereo%20Volume%20Controls&categoryID=Volume%20Controls&catcdID=6&prdcdID=FG00106

I also need to know what kind of speakers are in the house (make and model #), so I can figure out how many ohms they are. Then I can figure out how that Niles box gets wired (guessing series/parallel, but not sure).

How many total in ceiling speakers are there? That Niles black box is designed so you can get one 2-channel amp and use it to run up to 8 pairs of speakers. I'm not overly familiar with how that works, so I need to research it a bit. Seems to me like you would put an insane impedance load on your amp running 16 speakers, but I need to research how that box works. Regarding your basement, do you want a home theater system in there or just a 2 channel stereo system? Or if not the basement, do you plan on putting a home theater system in your house anywhere? First thing I would do is test all the speakers to make sure they aren't blown. Then go thru the process of figuring out which wires go where. That's not as difficult as you might think, with 2 people and a volt meter it's actually pretty simple but you'll need to pull each individual speaker while you're testing wires; would be a good time to test the speakers to make sure they aren't blown while you do that. Also, do you have a stereo you can use to test any of the speakers right now? Actually, what stereo equipment do you currently have (in addition to what came with the house you just purchased)?

I think they're about the same size. And I actually meant the Passport 9500, not the 8500. But I'd go the Bel route IMO. My dad has the 9500 and it's an awesome detector, just pricey. I would def recommend an RX65, you can get those cheap on ebay, but GPS is awesome and the only reason I want a new one.

Right now I have a Bel RX65 (older) but it still works well. It doesn't have GPS, so I get traffic light false alarms which is annoying, but it's saved me many times. I have it mounted in the drivers side top of the windshield and you can't see it outside the car. I had the mirror mount on my M3 and loved it, but the mirror mount doesn't fit my V70 mirror. If or when I get a new one, I'll get a Bel Pro500 or a Passport 8500. Leaning towards the Bel just cuz my current one has worked so well for so long. Both rate really well, but the Bel is a bit less money.

Stormtrooper, def post pics. I'll be glad to give some direction. Don't call an audio guy until you post pics of what's there.

Digging around I found another cabinet option. It's a ported bookshelf that uses that Alpair 10 and ends up being 9" wide x 16" tall when it's finished. Wouldn't have quite the lower bass as the tower cabinet, but I think it would sound great too and the cabinet would be a fairly simple build. You could always add a sub later down the road. Here's a link to the bookshelf cabinet dims... https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/pdf/markaudio-enclosure-plans/Alpair10-BR-cover.pdf Now I want to do a build using the Mark Audio Alpair 10 (or maybe the Alpair 7??) as the mids. I'm thinking a 3-way with 2- 8" woofers, those Mark Audio mids, and a ribbon tweeter. Won't be cheap, but it would probably sound amazing. I'd love to, here's the only issue. Obviously if we could get more people on board that would be WAY better, mainly because doing one pair of cabinets takes forever. If I was building 4 or more pair, obviously things get cheaper. The bookshelf speakers I posted pics of (gray kevlar woofers) sound phenomenal, but they are 4 ohm speakers (mainly just make sure your amp could drive them). They handle power really well, they're very detailed, and for a bookshelf monitor they're fairly full range- very respectable bass for a bookshelf monitor. I would describe the mids and highs as milky warm and very detailed. That said, if you like a lot of rap you'll want a sub, but you would with any bookshelf speaker. Or for movies, you'll also want a sub. Another hurdle would be shipping, I imagine shipping on 2- 16" tall x 9" wide cabinets would run about $50.