RAzOR

You are right. In fact the pics indicate to me that this car never made it out of the test mule stage.

Notice how Evolve hasn't said a word. There is a reason. What could it be? All this while, we have gotten one side of the information. That is not to say Matt is not being genuine. But before you go bashing, make sure you get a straight story from both sides then do your evaluation. This is what a judge does. Usually a company clams up if there is the slightest chance of litigation. And that is where this appears to be heading. We all seem to agree that it is hard to believe that Evolve would pull something like this. Therefore I believe there is likely (but not certainly) another side to this.

I think DVolvo's point is more that Christians may SHOVE it down your throat but at least they aren't CUTTING it like some others.

Ballbuster.

As a great liberal thinker once said.... "Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude!"

Where might I ask? I'd like to buy one.

I call them like I see them. And right now all I see and hear of are nutjobs. I'm sure your friends are just peechy. Oh yeah, some of the angry Muslim women I've seen ranting against radical Islam on TV can be on my team. That's my idea of a Muslim friend. Just out of curiosity, did all of your friends side with US Airways or the mullahs who got removed from the plane?

Yeah, and just because they now are there and put up a mosque, they consider it is Islamic holy land and now it must always be. If Europe tries to deport them, here comes another Jihad. Further, as far as I know, it is forbidden to convert to any other religeon or face death. Talk about a cancerous culture. More like a cult. No disrespect Kashif, just callin' it like I see it. And Jason, what makes you think they want to become Swedes? They are there for the money, not for a love of Sweden.

The congress was a Neo-Con congress, not a conservative congress. Bush has been acting like a Neo-Con himself. Hence the drubbing in November. The new congress is more conservative than its predeccessor. Do not associate Republicans with Conservatives and Democrats with Liberals, They are different. Look at what already happened to Pelosi (a liberal democrat), she got her ass handed to her for Majority Leader by the freshman dems. Liberalism is an ideaology that, at its roots, is morally relative. To me, and anyone else who thinks a bit more deeply, this is a road that eventually leads to chaos and oblivion. For example: the argument for gay marriage is based on "what's the harm?" and "who are we to say they can't get married". What is their position based on? History? No. Then what is their claim to credibility? None. They are experimenting. This is a dangerous tinkering with something that is strongly suspected of being a foundation of modern man. Not a tinkering with marriage per se, but a shot to break the fundamental practices of heterosexual preference, accustoming children to both a mother and a father, and the opposite sex. But this is only the beginning. Take their argument to the next step. Who should then speak against marrying a sibling? What's the harm? How about a goat or a horse? What's the harm? I am not even saying that sex would be part of the equation here. Just the audacity of developing a right to marry a pig, just because no one else should judge them No one can say no, becuase, "What's the harm?" Funny huh? Scary. Then, evidentally, this completely obfuscates the meaning, and sanctity of marriage. Further and more deeply confusing kids before they become adults. This extension to "the next step" example works for other liberal beliefs such as affirmative action. It is my personal belief that Liberalism is more of a feel good philosophy that tries to give everything to everyone because there is no identified harm in it. To me, this is a dangerous experiment, and the disregard or lack of concern for future consequences is reckless.

You forgot: 4. Disband our military, grow flowers, extend a friendly hand and song of peace and brotherhood, and then get blown up.

I'd call you a realist.

The way we are fighting this war is beginning to worry me. Maybe in the beginning we were testing to see if this objective could be won through occupation and a Marshall Plan of reconstruction. I think we are seeing that due to the religeous nature of the enemy, that logic, reason, diplomacy and anything other than outright brutal annihaltion of radical Islam will NOT be the solution. Because it is a radical form of a religeon it cannot be reasoned with, it cannot be compromised with, it cannot be managed. It must be destroyed or, like a cancer cell, it will infect neighboring docile cells and turn them to cancerous cells as well. Sorry for the analogy, but that is the way it is beginning to appear to me. I have a great fear that, as Che said, the American people are too soft to fight this war they way it may NEED to be fought. And this greatly frightens me. Have we lost our sense of self respect as a country to the point where will not defend our way of life? As a sidenote, this a great wound from liberalism- self hate and applied guilt. The relentless Liberal drumbeat that America is bad, bigoted, intolerant, polluting, etc. It's all negative and I think it is beginning to take its toll on John Q. Public. Our leaders can't even figure out a simple plan to defend our Mexico border- why? I am not sure. Many like me are mystified and, again, in increasing fear of the weakness of the American public, which is weakness of America itself. We are afraid to stand up for ourselves for fear of being called "Racists". We won't even protect our own borders. It is a trend towards national suicide that was started inside the country itself with a political ideaology of self hate. I now feel that I see it in many, many failing efforts such as illegal immigration and the war in Iraq. Hopefully, I can't be sure that that is indeed the cause. I hope that it isn't.

I think the election was more a referrendum on the war and Neocon Republican arrogance and corruption than it was a vote for the Democrats (who basically ran on and stood for nothing but a generic withdrawl timetable and higher taxes). On the plus side, the congress is far more moderate now on both sides of the isles but with Liberal leadership (Pelosi). The Republicans lost this. It was their own fault and they got what they deserved. Jerks. Note how Republicans don't whine about election fraud. They at least take their lumps, self examine and look inward. I have heard a lot of talk of this in the past two days. The GOP has work to do, but at least they know it. Now we have a party in power, the DNC, that thinks control is their birthright, never assumes it is their own fault, and really doesn't have a clue what to do. But for now, I am happy that the GOP got its ass handed to it. They needed this. I just hope they fix the rpoblem and get back in power in two years. The first thing Pelosi said was we (the DNC congress) is to going to do was try to restrict American corps from outsourcing labor to overseas (a tip of the hat to organized labor, the DNCs biggest single contributor). Right off the bat, a horrifically bad idea for the US, considering our economy is great, unemployment is low, prices are low, consumer confidence high, and inflation is in check. Sure there's some trouble but geez. The Democrats did not deserve to win but the Republicans and overspending, pork-out Neocons put the American people in this position. Pelosi is a very liberal, very smart, effective leader. We'll see how she handles a chamber full of moderates. All I can say, is that if W signs an amnesty bill on Illegal Immigration, I'm changing to independent.

QUOTE(Plan B @ Nov 3 2006, 09:05 AM) ←I do not understand why Irag's are killing other Irag's, anyone care to explain that to me?

I think current warn level should be added to the public profile. How cool would that be?

I'd make money too if I bought a baseball team!

Yeah. I think he is a good guy and am sure knows how to drink and have a good time. But he is a horrifically bad public speaker. Maybe "dain bramage" from too much alcohol in his younger days.

Like wise. That's one thing that makes this country so great. And you mean (as do I) "I hope to God Bush is right".

When W talks about winning the war, I believe he is narrowly, but correctly referring to the main effort of setting up a functional and powerful central government of Iraq and its full control of an effective military. The transition of power and full military control should take place sometime next year. It is then up to the Iraqis. EVOLVE I think what you and so many others like you are getting at is at best an ill-defined criteria for victory. Think about this: What would we (the US) have to acheive for YOU to consider it a victory? Think about that. Think if it is practical and realistic. It may not be. We ALL want the same thing. We just have differing paradigms, perspectives, and conditions for progress and victory. At least in this war, we all support our soldiers and that is very, very encouraging. My hat's off to Evolve and the other peace proponents for their support of the fighting men and women. With your ideology largely out of power for so many years, it must be hard to oppose and support such a heavy issue at the same time. But at least you see the seriousness of the situation. And take heart and remember that thanks to W and his strength, this isn't over. Not by a long shot. And those who support W's strategy (such as USMC and myself) could very well end up be right and winning this- an outcome that is, regardless of ideolgoy, a huge win for all of us.

Maxim Nov (current issued) has a fascinating report from an embed freelancer who gave up a lucrative Hollywood talent agency to find the facts. Check it out. IMHO, we either need to start fighting this war to win or GTFO. I can't see the strategy thats in place there. Sit in Baghdad and handle whatever Tehran or Damascus serves up? What's currently going on doesn't make sense to me. But I am far from a foreign policy strategist. What's going on just seems sadly self-induced. We could beat a path to Tehran and Damascus simultaneously in 2-5 days with what we already have there and flip those governments. The Iranians have no such divisiveness in their culture and should reinstate thet Shah or some other secular gov't like Turkey. And the flow of nutjobs would cease. And the bottom line for me in Nov is that the typical Democrat legislator is still far worse than an idiotic Republican.

Che-Mod, I don't have your e-mail. Fix me up! I'm worried Brickster gonna drop me from the Beer club if I can't contact him! Steve

Me too. Chuck, get me when you get dmelvi.

I'm out too. Can't even link to the Supporting Members Forum.

Total October surprise.

YYYYYAAAAAYYYYYY!