matt1122

It is unborn. Pre-life. I don't care if it is breathing, has a metabolism, or can kick its momma from the inside out, it's not alive unless it has been born. It's just as good to me as a brain dead person on life support, I guess.

You are wayyy to wrapped up in this. I think I explained my position in enough detail and it makes sense, you're just the most closed minded person I've ever met when it comes to abortion rights.

I'm done entertaining your arrogance.

a few kids from Texas

That's almost as reliable a source as VolvoSpeed! :o

Even if you don't view it as "wrong" there is no reason for government funding for this branch of stem cell research - as you said, there are much more effective stem cell sources than embryos.

So basically it comes down to whose numbers you believe, well guess what guys, they are both politicians and you cant trust either of them. That said, if you still trust Bush and make over 200,000 a year then you should vote for him. If thats not the case then you must be a middle class republican who doesnt have a son or daughter that died in iraq. if youre outside of this category Id like to know cause i dont see it happening. If you look at the raw numbers and the raw facts and really think bush has been good for this country's economy youre not seeing the issue with open eyes. they must be clouded by republicanism...flat tax for everyone I say, wheres that president?.

←

Anyone actually thinking John Kerry is a good candidate hasn't watched the race at all, it's unfortunate that stupid people would elect John Kerry just because they don't like George Bush despite the fact that John Kerry is the epidemy of a sleezy politician and completely unbelievable. Part of me actually wants to see him get elected just so I can see what the hell he actually does. At least I can feel safe knowing he WON'T be reelected for a second term if he does make it into office - his "Take both sides" methods guarantee the disapointment of at least half of his supporters no matter what he actually does.

this is the dumbest thread ive ever seen. and i hope some big hippie kicks youre ace be4 GOD gets to you.

←

this post far tops this thread for stupidity.

ontheheel, you're completely right. I'm just about finished with accelerated macro and all of bush's plans except for privatized social security seem like great ideas.

my opinion is always right and should be read as absolute truth

←

No. And don't reply.

A newborn baby is niether aware nor intelligent.  Nor is a child of a few months age for that matter.  Why isn't it acceptable to kill them too?

What a load of crap. Not aware nor intelligent on what level? If it can cry and make little baby noises then it's aware and intelligent.

developing babies are very aware of their surroundings and are born already recognizing their parents voices - so you do care. that's nice.

Pinning every pro choice person as someone who "doesn't care" or even "doesn't care enough" is very ignorant. Just because someone believes that abortion should not be banned as a whole by the government does not mean they don't value life, it simply means that those who do don't believe in imposing THEIR viewpoint on others when the others decisions do not affect the overall welfare of society.

your absolutely right. defining when life actually begins is of great importance to this discussion.

If someone supports a mothers right to choose, I've noticed that they're tendency is to say that life begins later on in the 2nd or 3rd trimester. Why is that?

Sorry, but life begins when the baby comes out. Birth is the beginning of life to me. Anything before that is an unborn baby - one that doesn't live yet.

This is a total contradiction.

No, you wish it was, just like you wish I was pulling the race card. The mother should have the opportunity to mae the decision, it is HER baby. It is PART of her. It BELONGS to her. Only she should be able to make the decision whether it should live or not.

But lets not dwell on this too long, because I believe no one has ever actually been convicted of a double murder for killing a pregnant women except where it has been overturned on appeal.

So pissing off hippies is more important than things like foreign policy and the economy?

←

Damned straight.

There are a HELL of alot of senators who have been around twice as long as Kerry in both parties who have not been considored to run for president.

And as noted above, George Bush Jr has no legs to stand on.  He didnt do squat as governor of Texas

←

He was chosen by god to piss off the hippies - those are big legs if you ask me.

:lmao: how did I miss that quote!!!!!

so what happens to mentally retarded people?

←

if you think mentally retarded people arent aware and intelligent you have never met one.

The one celled Zygote is no more alive than the bacteria I fight off with Lysol, if you really want to get scientific. I don't care if it's alive or not, as long as it isn't aware and intelligent I couldn't care less.

I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading here.

No one is forcing anybody else to believe their veiws.  This is the internet.  You can say whatever your tiny brain can think up.  The first amendment to our nation's constitution guarantees our right to free speech, so long as we abide by other laws and regulations.

I'm not talking about freedom of speech, I'm talking about the government banning abortion!

Who in the hell, besides you, pulled the race card anyhow?  This has nothing to do race so why bring it up!

And... you're an nice guy. Saying it's a black and white issue means it has a clear write or wrong answer (regardless of your arrogance leading you to believe you are always right and that there is one). It means there are shades of gray as well. Do you live under a rock? How can you not know what that expression means?

The fact is that life begins at conception, care to prove me wrong?  You never did answer my ? about  why it is ok for women to abort unborn babies but when a women carrying a unborn baby is killed the killer can be convicted of a double homicide!  Tell me that is odd!

This is not a fact, it is an opinion, go read up on your abortion issues and you'll find I am NOT the only person who thinks so. And to answer your question the reason no one argues with charging the murderer with a double homicide is because no one cares if a murderer goes to jail for one or two sentences. Actually, most people want him to go to jail for the second sentence, so no one would ever bother to argue against that except defense attorneys, and they lose because everyone wants to put their client away for as long as possible if he did indeed kill the woman. On the other hand I *do* agree with the double homicide charge because no one except the mother should be able to make the decision to abort a baby or not. If anyone else kills the fetus they should be charged for destroying potential life that was NOT going to be aborted. If the decision to abort is made the child is NOT to be, if the decision NOT to abort is made then the child is to be and THIS is when it should be charged as a double homicide.

I know you probbbably disagree, but thats my view on it.

so then would it be so wrong for women to carry their babies to full term and deliver them into a world where they would be wanted?

do you have children Matt [hope not]? have you every experienced the birth of a child first hand? have you been with a woman for the entire 9 months plus while she was pregnant? I don't think you have... and here is why... because you wouldn't be running off at the keyboard about how "no one cares about a lifeless glob of sperm and egg - i can kill it if i want to"... you would have more appreciation for life if you've really experienced what you're blabbing about.

and the argument about "it's not a life yet" is discredited by the very word "abortion". if it is not a life, then what are you aborting? cells dividing and multiplying into a child are not "potential" you effing nice guy... they exist. and at no point can you say "it is not a life" and be correct.

"wah wah wah. I'm being imposed upon!" oh so sorry to hurt your feeble little misguided ego. if you want to keep saying taking a stand to save lives is "imposing" well then I'll gladdly impose on your hippie, fluffy dog lov'n, jive turkey jerk all day long. first ammendment kid. word to yo motha.

Hippie again, huh? You're an nice guy, I'd NEVER abort a child if it was up to me, but I would NEVER take the right away from a woman to make that decision for herself, either. Get my drift? I'm a poking conservative - a TRUE poking conservative - I do NOT believe in government control over private life.

good lord I dont like kerry but I find this thread to be the king of retarded threads.

←

Nothing retarded about it. It's true, John Kerry has NO accomplishments to stand on, what were the democrats thinking having him run? There HAS to be someone better out there!

i know this sounds pretty cold, but consumers drive the economy.  more consumers, more consuming.  also, you create a larger future labor market, thereby expanding the most limited resource, and driving the economy foward.  people have babies, they need to buy things for their babies, increasing planned total expenditure, companies need to produce more, companies hire more people, more people hired means more wage earners, more wage earners means higher planned total expenditure. speaking of macro, i need to go study...

←

Haha, yeah, from a macroeconomic perspective I guess they would benefit spending, but sheer population growth is not a big economic helper. From a microeconomic standpoint though babies just cost money and don't do anyone any good.

So an unborn fetus is nonexistant?!?!

←

To me an unborn fetus is not a life, it's a potential life, and not everything that has potential suceeds.

The freedom to choose gives up a moral responsiblity.

How is having a child a moral responsibility? It is a decision, and if you don't want it you shouldn't have to have it and that's that. That doesn't mean you should be able to decide after it's too late as partial birth or after the first trimester, but I'm sorry - people should be able to decide if they want a child or not.

And adoption this, adoption that - most women would not give up their baby after going through birth. You talk about it like its something easy, like buying a car. "Oh don't destroy the car just because you don't want it, give it away to someone else who will love it and treat it well!" No, sorry, it takes 9 months, sometimes more, out of a woman's life and they are NOT easy months and birth itself is NOT easy. You go ahead and put 9 months of hard work, harder work than anything you'll ever work on, and then you go and give it up.

Please, this is not a black and white issue like some of you foolishly pretend it is. It isn't ignorant to be pro-choice or pro-life, and I'm not saying you don't have a right to feel the way you do, but you DON'T have a right to impose your views on others. This is NOT a societal issue in everyone's eyes. The governments job is to protect its citizens - well guess what, you aren't actually a citizen of this government until you're born.

Sorry!

Who gives a stuff? What never existed doesn't really affect us, does it now?

Second off, do you honestly believe Dubya would be president if it weren't for his father?  Chew on that one.  Two presidents and a governor.  Just so great they are the right ones for the job? Or perhaps more likely they have MONEY and CONNECTIONS.

←

Or perhaps more likely GOD DID IT JUST TO PISS THE HIPPIES OFF!

Kerry has been in the Senate for 20 years, I think the fact that he hasn't been asked to run for president or anything in all that time is because he is such a joke.

That was fun I should call Kerry a joke more often.

it makes you intolerant and closeminded.

so, are you not going to vote since it is such a waste? or are you going to waste your vote in some hippie protest?

←

Talk about hypocritical. And just so you know, yes I am intolerant, but I am very open minded.

And is GW a hippie protest?

First off, you reallllly need to work on your quoting skills.

but they are for the betterment of society

Babies don't help society, they cost money. The last thing we need is more babies. Laws aren't made because things are morally wrong, laws are made to keep order in society. A better law than banning abortion would be to ban hippies, hippies hurt society more than abortion does. At least abortion saves us money.

you pesimistic

Yes, and your point is?

those who truly value life and enjoy living it choose to fight for it

Unborn babies can't fight for their lives - there's a reason for that.

I for one am glad that your girlfriend is alive. Would you rather have not met her.

We haven't gotten to that point yet, but oh, I'm sure it's coming.

my vote does count

For little things like school budget spending, sure, but when's the last time congress asked you to pass a bill on abortion?

First of all, I don't give a stuff what you think and I don't really feel any of the issues I pointed out are very important, I was just yanking your chain and I thought that would be clear. Did I not sound enough like a raving lunatic?

Your unborn babies can go to hell, if they aren't wanted they aren't wanted and that's that - who the hell are you to decide if they should be born or not? Not everyone feels the way you do. Abortion is NOT a societal issue, it is a private issue and the government should not be involved, am I making my point clear?

What business of YOURS is it if your next door neighbor wants her baby aborted? What business of the governments is it?

NONE.

Just another situation in which people need to mind their own poking business.

/:lunchbox: ()

Oh, and I want to live in liberal fantasy land.

←

I think it's "Liberal La-La Land."

Ignorant? My view is ignorant? I, sir, am not the one trying to impose my bullshit morals on other people.

You think Pro-Life is the way to go?

Well, okay, if you want MORE starving babies and MORE crackwhore mothers on our streets you go right ahead and ban abortion, have fun! STOP the young women who have become pregnant because the condom broke from going to college and ever doing what they want with their lives because their parents won't support them after they found out their little girl became pregnant. Hell, maybe if you're lucky they won't be able to finish highschool, right?

Oh, and that 16 y/o girl who got raped? Screw her, it's her fault for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, she'll have to put it up for adoption - AFTER she's exiled by the entire school and looked down upon by 90% of her peers.

But it's okay, because they can all be born and then put up for adoption, adoption works out PERFECTLY every time and adopted kids are happy! Talk to my girlfriend, who actually was adopted, about how it is to know you were put up for adoption in the first place, even if the reasons are good. Then ask her how perfect adoption can be when suddenly you're growing up and because you're a less than perfect person and not infinitely grateful the family just wants you out of their hair. Great plan you have, I'll tell ya!

And don't you dare call me a hippy, sir, for that is where I draw the line!

:lol: I love the recurring theme of clinton getting slapped by hillary going "what'd I do?"

Gee Matt, you're so supportive..

←

I just don't think the thread starter is listening. ;)