lookforjoe

Hussein (I think this is your name),

Be careful with those injectors. There have been several issues with the 1700cc Bosch EV14 unit. Search and you will find!

They drop in flow when subjected to MTBE and also due to temperature. We used them on a E85 build and it still didn't work out. In the end we got 480whp with 100% duty on a T4 running 4,5bar relative fuel pressure.

Injector dynamics stop selling them when they found out.

Great injecter until problem. Very nice idle and also spray pattern.

Found two threads where they discuss this. Nothing new, though. Curious that several known vendors carry them listed for gas/E85 (Treadstone, FiveOMotorsport, and others)

Weather cleared enough for me to do a short pull or two to see how the VE revisions look. Much better, I think. Couldn't wind it out, but I did manage 60-100 pull. Annoyingly, I didn't go WOT until 1 sec in, and lifted off right at 100. In any event, I'm finally seeing an improvement over my previous 4.34 time with TTusb , now that load isn't maxxed out & timing values are higher as a result . I'll work on getting a cleaner pull, going WOT before 60 & ending after 100.

Main thing is that AFR's are looking much better

EDIT: Found a couple of recurring locations that are borderline -so raised them to get AFR below 12.5

IGNORE boost - it's not being logged - that's the EVAP tank pressure monitor circuit

59.03 MPH @ (time stamp) 103.486

100.04 mph @ (time stamp) 107.837

I have Nira running the engine in my S70 but the stock ecu is still also somewhat connected. Both receive the rpm signal and ECT. Stock ecu feeds the cluster for tach and coolant temp, it also controls the rad fan iirc.

That was my plan when I rewired my main harness for the VEMS install. I added a piggy back A/B socket so I could keep a lobotomized ECU for basic functions & OBDII testing.

I built the whole mess into a M44 casing

Since I've been able to work with M4.4, I have no use for all that now. I guess I should think about selling it, along with TurboTuner/COP ECU's. SOLD

Not sure if this is of any interest, but I tested my injectors this past weekend. Tried to figure out the dead time to set in my MegaSquirt settings. The 160lb High Impedance Bosch injectors I have seem to be very linear all the way down to a PW of 0.8ms. If you ever think of upgrading these should still provide a good idle once tuned correctly.

The video is for PW of 10 @ 2400RPM for 900 pulses.

Just bought 5 of these (Bosch original 160lb 0280158827) off an eBay vendor - used for dyno testing according to the listing - they had 90 last week, and only 11 left today, so I figured I better get them & put them aside. $30 less per unit than any other source I could find.

Your car has much more weight and 4wd so its very fast (my car weight without driver 3000lbs / 1360kg)!!! I really hope you can get your car tuned and then have good dyno session.

Yep. I think that of us all M4.4 tuners, he's pushing the most effort into it, and I respect him for that.

But sometimes you just can't make an elk outrun a rabbit

Mine is 4110lbs weighed at the track I think after a certain speed the weight is less of a factor, but maybe that is in rolling pulls.

In any event it is not my expectation that I will reach your power levels on my build, I'm just looking to see how far I can go with M4.4 at this point. I will go back to the dyno to verify numbers once I'm confident I have a safe baseline.

I honestly didn't think I would get over 500AWHP, and that wouldn't have happened without the work of all those exploring the M4.4 software (many thanks to all !!!)

But then Hussein explained that number crunching the M4.4 is part of his game. Added to that with the incomplete information gathered from reverse engineering the M4.4 sometimes revisions need to be made. Keeping the OEM motormanagement in the car has some advantages over a standalone management.

Indeed.

The main advantage is for NY State inspections - they use OBDII to communicate with the EMS to provide a clean bill of health. The assumption being that if it has a pulse, and sets no codes, that the system with all its emissions devices is operating as designed

Standalone wouldn't work without issues.

4.gear is pulling hard from 100-145mph. Its easy to tune on road because it takes only 5seconds to run from 100-145mph on 4.gear.

Nice! Mine is closer to 8sec in that time frame, with a 4-5th shift. Hopefully with some work I can get a little closer to your times

Changes last night -VE bumps, minor timing cleanup, WOT values,

Log today - some more part load, part throttle/high load lean areas arose. AFR's over 6K are fine, just need to do some more work in peak torque area

Part load trim has dropped closer to zero over the past few changes

4th

4-5th -same load area show up

Further changes to VE map - using either .0156 or .0244 increments instead of my minimal .0078

Could you explain why is this tuning so difficult on your car and time consuming? On gasoline you should try to aim 11.5afr to get best knock resistant and also try to get flat boost and after that adjust ignition timing to knock and take 2 degrees of it.

I would use 3 or 4 gear for tuning. After tune is okay then i would test flat out from standing still to 4 gear rev limiter. Then it should be okay.

But i cannot understand why this is so difficult on you car???

Thank you for the tips on tuning techniques. Now that the VE is getting close I just started adding a little timing back based on yesterday's log.

I think Venderbroeck explained the overall situation with using M4.4 quite succinctly.

I do focus on AFR's in 3rd/4th for refining the values. I have been targeting 12.5, because in general, it seems to make more power than when it is below 12. Another factor there is that when I take it to the AWD dyno for get actual numbers, it invariably runs fatter under load compared to street. With the current setup, I have to assess how much to add to individual load cells & experiment - it's not just plug in an AFR value & go. Piet has a different setup that uses a WBO2 signal, which I believe is more of a straight AFR table, vs. the factoring of the stock. I will be trying that also.

The main reason for the time consuming aspect relates to how I gather my logging data. I think you can understand at a glance that the pulls I'm doing can be problematic, so I don't do more than one in a day, review the logs, and make changes based on the data. I don't have a known safe area where I can do back to back pulls without some concern for outside factors that like to limit rate of travel. I really prefer to do the tuning on the road vs. Dyno, given the previously mentioned load factor with dyno tuning.

On top of all that, I enjoy doing it this way, even if it is time consuming. Once I have it sorted out, I'll change something else, increase boost, etc., and have to revise it anyway

Getting much closer now. Felt good, so I ran it higher in the rpm today. With this MAF compound scaling, I'm getting much better timing values up top without knock, which obviously helps make more power. This is at 26.5psi.

MAF flow values are no longer accurate depiction of actual flow.

3-4th

4th into 5th

You can see the load drop off over around 6700 in 4th gear. Lower load in 5th when comparing rpm values

Some more fueling adjustments based on that data

Next I'll start dropping the WOT table values & try to get it set with primarily the VE map.

Good luck with that last thing. My son is now 24, finished with college and he now lives back in his mothers house. I've suggested he go to California or some other country to live on his own, but he doesn't seem ready for that. Having a garage full of Volvo parts and a semi-finished 850 wagon may have something to do with that.....

Still refining the VE fueling for the revised (compound revB) MAF scaling. Getting close now. Still had some breakup in the lean areas.

Aaron noted my data rate was off - since I adjusted that, I have pretty much double the data recorded, which is nice for more precise monitoring of AFR fluctuations over specific load/ rpm ranges.

After this log, I made a few more revisions - much fatter in the 8.98-10.32 5-6,6k ranges

Earler table

Now

Any pics of the 10V head /cams? Never seen one.

Better get your son his own car - I'm sure you are familiar with statistics on young male drivers and accident rates.....

Alright cool, it may just be injector limited, or just a tuning issue. I'm gonna look into it more.

Did you upgrade your fuel pump? The FPR cannot maintain pressure beyond the volume delivery limitations of the pump, so once you reach the capacity limit of the pump, inj duty will climb rapidly & AFR's will lean out. Similar sized injectors on my setup were good to 450AWHP (21psi on PTE6262, DW300 in tank pump) before the pump was done & duty cycle went over 90%. You can log Inj duty with the SSI-4, BTW - use a feed tapped into any one of the inj signal ground wires to feed it.

This could be discussed in your thread, if you need to elaborate

Not too shabby at all! AFR's look nice & stable once you get over 4K.

MAF7 (compound revB) log from today. Couldn't go to far with it, weather is nasty. Slight knock after lean conditions. Overall, part throttle response is very nice. I can use 5th & 6th at lower rpms without 'lugging' than with previous Factored MAF scale, and that was a significant improvement over rescaled VE to compensate in TTusb.

AFR's tend to be much higher in lower gears, so I'm not overly alarmed at what's showing up here. Changes will bring it down. Far as I'm concerned, anything under 6-7 load range can stay in the 14's AFR range. Anything over 9 (based/targeted on results in 4th) needs to be in the 12's

VE & WOT revisions based on those logs. Tracer allows one to match load cells with recorded AFR's to determine changes. I try to keep small steps - which typically is a .0078 increment for the VE table. WOT table, I usually go .01 steps & see how that goes.

Still playing with Warmup Factor also, pretty nice at the current settings, starts & warms up well in sub zero (ºC) temps we've been having. I don't normally drive away until engine is around 50ºC- Forged pistons make quite a racket when cold..

If you have an M66, you need to order seals for the M66. Left axle seal is 6843481.

Right side, depends what you mean, since there are axle seals in the BG, and in the diff case. All the seal(s) are shown in the pinned SS AWD component thread.

A by product of the MAF scale tweaking is that with reduced (percieved) load, it will run more timing up top, similar (but more refined) to when I was maxing the MAF scale in TTusb, and the system was reverting to lower load cells over 6K rpm. The advantage to that was definitely more go at the top end

This was the data log from my 446AWHP dyno log and the TTusb timing table. you can see where the timing values increase above the 100% load cell values at the top end, even with a pretty lean AFR due to the fuel system being tapped out in terms of volume at that time. I hoping that the current tweaking of the MAF tables will get me back into a position where I can run more timing again, without the random aspect that was present in TTusb with the inappropriate MAF scaling for the setup I had then.

Further adjustments to the VE map. Getting there. With the reduced MAF / load scaling, I'm getting better timing values up top, without knock

Based on this log, I can make further adjustment to the VE table, both for enrichment, and to lean out some part load areas that don't need to be so rich

Another MAF revision (thanks Venderbroeck) & log today

Throttle progression, MAF/Load relationship is definitely improving. Had some lean(!!) spots

going through the affected areas in the complete log allows me to isolate load cells that need tweaking.

See how that goes.

Not sure if this is of any interest, but I tested my injectors this past weekend. Tried to figure out the dead time to set in my MegaSquirt settings. The 160lb High Impedance Bosch injectors I have seem to be very linear all the way down to a PW of 0.8ms. If you ever think of upgrading these should still provide a good idle once tuned s

Nice! Much better than the 2ms rating on the Siemens! The 1000cc I have now are rated down to .9ms - and I've been able to get it running just fine at that, so those should be great, if I max out what I have DTR. Thanks for the info. Do you have the vendor / part number for them also ?

so what does that bad boy put down for numbers now?

Don't know yet - haven't been back to the dyno since resolving the coil breakup issue with the GM conversion. Once tuning is refined, I can get that on the schedule. Rough estimate would be 500AWHP at current boost level (25.7psi) - 446AWHP was @ 21psi, 408AWHP was @ 18psi, etc..)

Thanks, guys. The plastidip was originally to conceal cracks around the IC intake grille from people backing into my bumper - but having never tried it before, I wanted to see what it was like to apply & later peel.

Some more revisions to the MAF table, and to the VE load cells affected in the previous logs. So, another log today. No knock at all. A few lean areas in the 5-5,6K full load cells below WOT compensation, so I'll make some adjustments for that. On & off, in 3rd & then 4th gear. Even with part throttle acceleration when I shifted into 4th, 60-100 was 4.75 sec (10.821-15.568 range). 60-90 is only a couple of secs, maybe, so very easy to find myself going much faster than expected in regular traffic

EDIT: Just noticed another occurrence - 86.32 - 88.19, full load, part throttle same rpm range as other occurrences

Screenshots from Piet's tests

14v 4ms

12v 2.3ms

Log from today - revised MAF table & revised COP dwell.

Need to revise the part load timing, I'm getting knock at 22% throttle in 4th. Didn't expect the weather to clear, so I hadn't cleared the adaptive knock from the weekend

no knock in the straight 4th pull

Been working on cleaning up all the logging sensor wiring in preparation for my new 16 channel logging device that works with TunerPro.

Also working on revised MAF table designed to reduce perceived Load - objective being to prevent hitting 100% load cells at 25% throttle (discussion in TunerPro thread).

Did a little cosmetic work - removed some more plasti dip from the front cover, installed 80w halogen lo beams (hids don't generate heat - headlamps get frozen over in snow/sleet conditions), reverted to stock (tinted ) tails

Did a little cleaning of the aluminum under the hood

The bigger air box sounds interesting, and brings up something that I've thought about from time to time. I've had visions of plumbing in a second AC evap into an airbox to provide true cold air induction. I figured that the compressor load wouldn't change so no additional drain on HP. The trick would be switching it on and off while still retaining cabin cooling.

That is in interesting idea - I must admit it crossed my mind when thinking in general about cooling the intake air. Not sure if the velocity of the air under load would be too rapid to be cooled to any significant degree, though. Would be interesting, none the less. The stock setup is designed to shut down the compressor under high load, not sure what the parameters for AC on/off under load are, but like any other parameter in M4.4, they can be changed if you are using TunerPro, I would expect.