lookforjoe

Took a fair bit out of the VE map, and increased the WOT map instead, since I hit 100% load cells by 30% throttle or earlier. Still hit some rich areas, so more work is needed but it's getting there. Short pull log, AFR's were better, no knock recorded. 64-114 is about 5sec, with two shifts, so tuning level is on par with the TTusb map I was running. What's getting to be a pain is that several logs didn't save properly, so I can't access them. Of course it's the ones that I most wanted to evaluate.

Have to add a diode on the red terminal 16 feed to the VAG-COM, at it is, if I connect another device to the ODBII port, it backfeeds the VAG-COM.

Identified a couple of specific part throttle rich areas - I took screen shots right as the AFR's dumped below 12 at part throttle...

integrated the VAG-COM into the OBDII cable, with a interrupt switch, and moved the LED into the OBDII connector plate. Whole thing moved to the cover plate inside the center console

24 psi and 15.3:1 isn't crazy?

The AFR & Boost are not connected - those were setup by TMM9 in the ADX file - the readings bear no relation to my AFR's or boost.

EDIT: IGNORE boost & AFR gauges - those are not connected to my setup - the values are meaningless in the context of my setup!

First time I've seen any evidence of knock - I was beginning to think maybe I had a problem with the KS setup... wonder why cyl #2?

Log file

start around 1;15 then around 7:15

Still very rich part throttle. I need to get the AFR hooked up so I can compare load/rpm/AFR & figure out where to make changes more precisely

The way I remember it is that O2 feed back it not fully disabled but only reduced above ~4k RPM. So the ECU seems to be adjusting for some of the lean condition that he is having mainly because of the dropping fuel pressure.

H you need to address your fuel pressure problems.

Yeah, the fuel pumps are installed, but I can't plumb the fuel lines, FPR & new rail until the weather is warm and my Fiat is back on the road. So, I just won't run over 21 psi until then.

I'm more concerned with the part throttle stutter/rich condition - I can always lean out the top once I have the volume at high load taken care of.

Where are you getting those STFT numbers from? Doesn't seem right that you have STFTs when full throttle...

Also, your coolant temp only maxed to 76ºC, seems really low to me.

Nice to see your air flow numbers actually correct now

I have a 167 degree thermostat. I lowered the fan speed so that normal operating temp at extended idle does not exceed 85 degreec C

The STFT values are pulled from the ECU via the OT-2 - 4 channels can be drawn.

Yes -1270 kg/h (353) is now max recorded value instead of being stuck at 231

Yeah - I'm not keen on working out in this weather. I spent an hour or so working on the AC/heater blower motor - it was cutting out intermittently. Tested all the sensors & only thing I could find was that applying pressure to the fan motor connector seemed to restore full fan operation. I just tie wrapped around the fan casing to pull the connector up & secured the wiring so it wasn't hanging free. I need to do the right front wheel bearing - it's started howling in this very cold weather.

Couldn't get TunerPro to connect when I left work, so I ran a Logworks log from today - values are more inline with what I was seeing using TT. WOT settings are all stock. Need to enrich upper cells now. Rich area at part throttle needs attention. Timing values at that point are from the 2nd to top load cells. Max 21psi (249kPa) boost. I think I can add a degree or two in the upper load cell in this weather. Added 3% to the top load row >5600

If your LTFT_I has settles at 8µs then you're golden.

I would reccomend setting LTFT_PL to zero in your .bin. Like I've said before I think it is ineffectual at controlling AFRs on a non-stock motor setup.

I took a look at your log and was unable to recover it, sorry. You should get your wideband hooked up your ECU and send me a long (15minute) drive to go over.

Thanks for all your help with this!

I hope to get the WB signal hooked up in the next couple if weeks - I can't easily work in 8-20 degrees f temps :-(

Leaned out the upper cells again, on a base rescaled MAF from TMM9, with an additional 5% rescale

feels responsive, and I think the trim values have improved, still trying to properly understand the LTFT_I and PL relationship & values.

Gas consumption has been horrendus - the weather doesn't help, but I've been getting about 11-12mpg (!!) with this revision, my EGT's have dropped back to the 1000 degree range that I was used to under part load/cruise (had risen to 1200 with the earlier MAF scaled tunes), so I'm presuming its runner a tad leaner now.

I still have the stutter, but it does seems to be a rich condition that builds rapidly at part throttle, until the AFR's are so rich it bogs & then recovers. I still have to figure out which areas of the map to adjust. Typically data logging fails to connect in Tpro precisely when I'm planning on trying to capture this. The one log I did get the other night is corrupted somehow.

If the stutter wasn't there before the MAF re-scale then the problem is most likely the MAF re-scaling, wouldn't you think?

If you're too rich overall the best course of action would be to reduce the injection constant or specific VE map values.

I tried running your scaled MAFtable with VE maps reduced by 1-3% and it didn't work so well. Tried the current table with inj constant reduced, that didn't run well either.

I've made a revised VE table, with reductions mostly up top, since I hit 100% load cells pretty early in terms of throttle angle, and added a little timing in the 90-100% load rows, since I have no pull as it stands.

I'm going to try both MAFtable BINs with reduced VE & added timing & see how it goes. The main problem with the original scaled table is that I got around 11 miles to the gallon (180mi/17.5gal) with relatively few heavy accel runs - since part throttle resulted in clouds of (black) fuel smoke.

I'm losing track of what I have & haven't tried with all the mix & match between the base rescaled MAF table, and the additional 10% rescale. The logs generated aren't that helpful - it would be easier if I could attach a note to the bin somehow - in TT I had this option, which was actually useful for keeping track of changes to tunes.

If the stutter wasn't there before the MAF re-scale then the problem is most likely the MAF re-scaling, wouldn't you think?

If you're too rich overall the best course of action would be to reduce the injection constant or specific VE map values.

Yes, the rescaling introduced the stutter, but the whole scaling seems off since it is too rich overall, and substantially rich (10 AFR's) at part throttle, even with reduced VE map values..

H, I can't tell on your dashboard what the gauges are, with the titles being white on blue background.

Rod

I'll have to fix that

stutter because its too rich? there is also an AE map, Acceleration Enrichment. Do you ever register any knock?

Stutter after I rescaled the MAF map to reduce registered air mass - there was no stutter before, when it was too rich overall.

I have no timing pull or knock with the TT timing map I'm using - probably because it's so rich - I get AFR's in the 11's & 10's under load

hitting 100% load at part throttle - running way to rich

EDIT: I don't have boost or AFR hooked up! - this dash is based on one from TMM9 that includes inj voltage

STFT seems better - not stuck negative as before. Have a stutter/hesitation when going part throttle tip in. Not sure whether to make changes to the VE map or tweak the injector constant back closer to calculated value of .26, currently .32

Are you still planning on moving over to standalone at some point?

That requires much more time, so if I do it it won't be until a summer. I have the VEMS ecu ready, just have to switch some hardware around.

Megasquirt maybe?

Yeah, right.

Did a harder pull 3rd-4th-5th with the modified 608 file. Way to rich - so I'll lean out the upper cells & lower the WOT values. It seems the stock VE map is pretty good as is - just needs the work to move the peak load area up to 3600-5200rpm range

VE map in spreadsheet - lower section shows conversion applied to target AFR values

graph 3rd - 4th - 5th

data

Suggested Maf table for 76.5 ID housing, using the Eurodyne flowmeter google doc - which puts my current modded MAF table (thank you Aaron) in the ballpark - just looks like some top end tweaking may be needed

Data log - 1263 Kg/H (approx 350 g/s) @ 5300 rpm, 85% throttle - so it records higher than the gauge displays

Part throttle run 1001 Kg/H (278g/s) 4290rpm, 30% throttle

MAF values maxxed out by 5K rpm, 85% throttle. For comparison, TTusb scaled VE tables maxxed out the MAF around 5.5-5.7K, 100% throttle.

I just don't understand why you would want to change those other axes. Like I said before, the only reason to rescale your axes is to allow for better control up top in the VE map and Ignition map. What other maps would you need to alter up top? If you start changing the other axes then you're going to throw off the scaling in every map in the ECU. You could fix it by rescaling every map, but again, what's the point?

Also, you should just remove the lowest two RPM values. When is your car ever operating below 840 RPM?

Thanks again for your time reviewing my logs & suggestions.

I found that removing the lower rpm bins threw off my cranking time when starting - it must reference them somehow when initially turning over. Maybe it's not a problem with cap/rotor setups. I can try a bin with those columns shifted, but it definitely was a problem via the TTusb interface, with COP.

I ran the car with the constant raised up to .2831 (after trying .26, .27), felt a tad better at idle. Also did a couple of harder accel pulls, to see how the AFR's looked (not logged) - overall felt pretty good, but definitely needs refining before I do any extende pulls.

idle: (had a flaky timing value @ 810rpm in the two early morning logs - somehow I entered a 4 digit timing value & didn't catch it!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x5nia5cbxkaarg8/idleJan181abin.xdl

part throttle

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qux0yv67x3pl8f/partthrottlejan18.xdl

heavier throttle

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b7qb4lcnzzwhp95/wotrunjan18.xdl

timing value fixed in this one:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hsxf63mqam06xvk/5thpulljan18pm.xdl

I'll add screenshots when I get the files opened on the mac - on the PC it is saving all the logs in Logworks format & I can't open them (tried choosing TPro using prpoperties/'open with', didn't work - but I'm just not PC savy).

Getting misfire CEL's - random & assorted individual cylinders on a regular basis at idle, and shortly after startup. Also on both part & heavier throttle runs.

Haven't played with the latency table yet, I don't know which gauge relates to injector voltage @ idle.

EDIT: using playback, MAF is maxxed out at 800 by just over 4K 3900 RPM (EDIT: This is a gauge restriction, actual recorded flow exceeds this, see screenshots of logs later. Need a revised adx with altered gauge parameters)

idling after 810rpm timing fixed

I would probably leave the load 'group of 8' alone. The only reason to edit the axes is to gain scale in the VE map and Ignition map, nothing to gain performance wise from maps that reference the 'group of 8' load axis. There are a whole litany of maps that aren't in that .xdf that you would have to scale if you edited the axis.

Aha - I changed the upper values in those to match the rescaled load values - it was clear which load ranges they dealt with. I can always change them back if need be.

Thanks for all your help, Aaron.

Looking at the RPM group of 8 - the same situation exists - the values match the alternating. I used compare with stock 608 bin to check the values against the Major RPM scale (in red) Not sure those shouldn't be updated to match the rpm scaling being used?

Rescaled the load Axes as suggested by Aaron, and altered the injector min. Injection time - set to .10 for now . Started and idled much better.

Other settings - lowered fan onset to keep coolant temp lower. Quirky that speed 5 has a lower temp value than 1.

I have a couple of logs that I will edit and add later.

Tried running on the 608 with modified MAF table (thank you Aaron), and adjustments made to injector parameters (thank you Matt). Runs very rich and idle is unstable:

So, I'm going to make some adjustments to the injector calibration suggested by Aaron & see how that goes tomorrow. This time, I'll leave the ECU in place, since I forgot I can just flash the other BIN with the TT-based fuel, ign & WOT maps.

H,

It also looks like the what appears to be a voltage regulator on the board which is under your red and green wire, appears to be a rosin / flux connection, I'd recommend reflow and clean to assure a good connection.

Thank you for your observation - I will address that!

Sounds like your injector constant isn't set correctly.

This is with the TT ECU - no adjustments made there.

Same on both ECUs? TT and the new one? They should behave virtually identical.

Like Zappo said, typically you would need to change the injector constant but it seems like the STFT/LTFT was correct the VE table. You can still work with the stock injector constant, but you can have issues with AE and warm up for example if those settings are not tuned either.

No - with the TT ECU - once I get running with the Ostrich, I will build a different bin with adjusted MAF, Inj values, etc. Right now, I just want to confirm the car will run with the 608bin with my timing & fuel values entered via your XDF modification.

Pouring rain today, but I wanted to try the ECU/Ostrich2. The car wouldn't start and the fans run continuously - so definitely ECU problem. Conversed with Matt, and rechecked all my soldering. Found three ZIF posts with poor contact to the board. Reflowed the joints and tested OK with meter. Reinstall (still raining) and no more fan run on, but no start either. Remove & test COP pinout - lost continuity on A12 (+15). Remove case and wire broke free - from moving the casing so much..

This one is bottom row, so a pita to access

Re soldered alongside pin instead of on top, for hopefully better connection - pins are bent back afterward....

Lastly, I re shaped the lock arm to avoid the PLCC connector.

The downside to switching ECU back & forth is that the car runs like shit (pegs lean on the AFR) for at least 5min before the adaptive settles down, worse if you try & drive it, I found out recently...

The VE map (from TT) will not work if you don't keep the stock injector constant. TT does not modify the Injector constant, in only modifies the entire VE table at once for injector calibration. At least from my trial and error with TT and the 1700cc injectors.

I think there were several controls altered for injector size /type - I'll confirm with Matt to be safe.

Thanks Justus & Matt

I'll reset the injector constant to stock.

I'll have to work on a separate BIN that includes modified MAF scaling and injector constant, using the stock VE/Ign maps.