gdizzle

Like I said before, why use something so crude that has been proven to not be effective. There are more viable options that have more success that don't include murder.

It is unborn.  Pre-life.  I don't care if it is breathing, has a metabolism, or can kick its momma from the inside out, it's not alive unless it has been born.  It's just as good to me as a brain dead person on life support, I guess.

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QUOTE(Deltablade @ Oct 14 2004, 03:02 AM)

A newborn baby is niether aware nor intelligent.  Nor is a child of a few months age for that matter.  Why isn't it acceptable to kill them too?

What a load of crap. Not aware nor intelligent on what level? If it can cry and make little baby noises then it's aware and intelligent.

You just said that if it can do these things it must be intelligent. An unborn baby can do these things, so how is it not "alive?"

embryonic stem cell research is wrong and shouldn't be allowed. It has been proven that stemcells from umbilical cords and adults are 90% more effective than those from embryos.

On the other hand I *do* agree with the double homicide charge because no one except the mother should be able to make the decision to abort a baby or not. If anyone else kills the fetus they should be charged for destroying potential life that was NOT going to be aborted. If the decision to abort is made the child is NOT to be, if the decision NOT to abort is made then the child is to be and THIS is when it should be charged as a double homicide.

This is a total contradiction.

To me an unborn fetus is not a life, it's a potential life, and not everything that has potential suceeds.

How is having a child a moral responsibility? It is a decision, and if you don't want it you shouldn't have to have it and that's that. That doesn't mean you should be able to decide after it's too late as partial birth or after the first trimester, but I'm sorry - people should be able to decide if they want a child or not.

And adoption this, adoption that - most women would not give up their baby after going through birth. You talk about it like its something easy, like buying a car. "Oh don't destroy the car just because you don't want it, give it away to someone else who will love it and treat it well!" No, sorry, it takes 9 months, sometimes more, out of a woman's life and they are NOT easy months and birth itself is NOT easy. You go ahead and put 9 months of hard work, harder work than anything you'll ever work on, and then you go and give it up.

Please, this is not a black and white issue like some of you foolishly pretend it is. It isn't ignorant to be pro-choice or pro-life, and I'm not saying you don't have a right to feel the way you do, but you DON'T have a right to impose your views on others. This is NOT a societal issue in everyone's eyes. The governments job is to protect its citizens - well guess what, you aren't actually a citizen of this government until you're born.

Sorry!

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WOW!!! You get dumber the more you type and by looking at your post count, you type a lot! Who in the hell, besides you, pulled the race card anyhow? This has nothing to do race so why bring it up! The fact is that life begins at conception, care to prove me wrong? You never did answer my ? about why it is ok for women to abort unborn babies but when a women carrying a unborn baby is killed the killer can be convicted of a double homicide! Tell me that is odd!

Like Joe said, it's the Off-topic/Deleted Posts forum. What more do you expect. If you don't want to read or partake in the forum, then don't. Simple as that, but don't try to shut it down just because you have a problem with it. Build a bridge and get over it.....man thats lame, but tru3!

No it isn't you dolt.

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Oopppss, that was me.

nice guy == idiot

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yeah i gathered that when I tried to say id!ot.

Hey, go easy on Matt... I mean, since when do you look for coherent arguements from the village nice guy?

(Also, you're starting to sound like you're making alot of personal attacks in general. You might want to tone it down a little.)

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Village nice guy?!?!?! How about village loser!

Im sorry but you are mistaken in the point. Any sperm that is "Wasted" by not attempting to fertilize an egg is a possible future child that is "wasted" as well.

Secondly, I didn't say I approved of aborition, I SIMPLY said that the goverment has no right to single handedly decide what is right or wrong for millions of women and thier potential children. I would much rather see an abortion than a child raised in an unfit home, malnourished, beaten ect.

Third, the common views of prolifers are that people just have abortions weekly. Im sorry, unless you are a WOMAN I highly doubt that the majority of us can fully comprehend the mental process involved in deciding to get an abortion or not. Safe to say, niether can the goverment, nor could they fairly or effectively decide on a case by case basis.

Which still brings me back to the point. If you are for it or think its apprehensiable or not, I still do not believe any of us have the right (Gov't included) to make a decision for the masses, when that decision will have little to no effect on our own personal lives.

As it stands right now, I think the current abortion laws are fairly adequete.

Oh, don't give me the "killing people thing", apparently that doesn't stop Pro-LIFERS from blowing up abortion clinics either.

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There are "radicals" in every movement and sadly enough, they are the ones who get all the attention. Sorry Doug, but your arguement is weak just like Matts. Killing is killing. I can see if a women is raped, then maybe. Mike is correct though, abortion is nothing but selfishness! It's for the irresponsible in most cases. Partial birth abortions are even worse! I don't have time to lay the smack down but I will chime back in later on.

Quite frankly no one is asking you or the government what you think of it. There is no reason you have to impose your morals and thinking on anyone else. The US is built upon freedom of choice - people kill other adults even though it's illegal, so what makes you think making abortions illegal would stop them anyway? In no way would banning abortions help our society, even if it did make you feel like you were a better person and you lived in a better and more morally just country.

That said, abortion isn't really a conservative vs. liberal issue, it is a partisan issue. One party stands on one side in general, the other party stands on the other side, but it shouldn't influence your decision in this poll what-so-ever since the poll is not party based. See past the parties and politics and decide if you are for a more conservatively government or a more liberally run government.

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WOW! That's the biggest bunch of crap evAR! So what you are saying is murder should be leagal, I mean, were just going to do it anyway!

Call me captain conservative [based on Inline's def.]

To expand on my conservative stance - I'm also Pro-Life. And FTR that "masterbation is mass murder" argument is weak. An unborn zygote/baby is not "potential" life it IS life. My daughter is one month old - still can't imagine that the government allows my wife and I to decide on our if we were to let her be born or to be sucked out of the uterus by a vacuum. My question is if we have the right to put our unborn children to death - why can't I go cleanse the gene pool once and a while - same to me. Pro-choice is nothing but selfishness.

Liberalism just seems backwards to me. "Don't hurt the environment! Don't cut down that tree! Don't club that baby seal! .... but go ahead and suck the brain out of your own unborn.  - You conservatives are wrong! You can't put those ten commandments up! You can't carry your bible in school! You can't put restrictions on me! You can't tell me what to do! ... but we should have complete tolerance of every other religion, creed and moral.  - Let's focus inwardly and ignore the those nice militants who have vowed to kill all infidels [Americans], maybe they'll just not terroize us if we ask nicely."

Drives me crazy. Bring on the replies.

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Man, I knew there was a reason I was freinds with you! hahahah! Well put Mike!

What would you call me?

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Confused tree huggin' hippie! :)

yes,  JCviggen,  there should be more people like me 

my big question is  - why do only about 45 - 50% of Americans vote and there is about 80 - 85% voter turn-out in Europe? Do they hand out cookies or something? I guess more people care about the world across the pond.

nice discussion. tell everyone in Belgium I said hi.

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If you really knew Mike JC, you wouldn't want more people like him! :P

Kerry is such a tool! Anyone else think J Edwards got his butt handed to him last night?

chuck i couldnt agree more.

ive got big problems with both candidates, however i must say bushs' renowed debating skills didnt really show through in the first debate. love him or hate him kerry put up his own. i bet if the election were today it would be another recount situation.

its always interesting how often people are accused of "being against" this or that because they didnt appove a bill. somehow it is rarely (i never heard it at all during the debate) pointed out that bills do contain many many items and there are so many proposed that the point is basiclly void.

both parties are doing such terrible jobs with their candidates that a reasonable third party would seem like a viable option at this point. darn shame theres none to be found. im moving back to the homeland. tony blair knows the deal.

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BYE!!!!!

Let me know how you like it over there. Isn't Tony Blair a Bush supporter? :blink:

Charles,

The new banner is awesome! :lol:

Well I hope Sammys is still intact and good ol' fud puckers. :lol:

Why the hell would a hurricane have anything to do with a presidential election? that dudes got too much time on his hands to have thought that whole issue out

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Thank yoU!

:rolleyes:

bump!

Good luck Charles!

Those of us old enough to remember the Vietnam War and what John Kerry did after returning from the war will never consider voting for him. Those who don't can get some insight at www.wintersoldier.com. I don't deny him the right to say what he said, the timing of it made it treason, after all, there were many of our friends over there still fighting and he was giving comfort to the enemy. The swift boat vets can have their say, but to me, the interesting thing is that Mr. Kerry is attempting to squash attempts to re-publish the book he wrote in 1971, title "The New Soldier". Think about it, what doesn't he want you to read?

Those of us who own businesses in NC (or anywhere) should be wary of any ticket with John Edwards on it. Insurance rates in this state, particularly in the medical field, have gotten so high that many doctors will not practice here. Mr. Edwards brags that he grew up poor in a mill town before going off to school and becoming a millionaire trial lawyer at the expense of doctors and businessmen. Guess what, I grew up poor as well, probably in worse conditions than Mr. Edwards, but I have made it, not by preying on others, but by helping others. I am one of the ones that Mr. Edwards targets.

Put those 2 together and there is only one choice for me... Bush/Cheney '04.

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by the way overreading, thats pretty funny 5/32 eskimo. but if he were alive, my great grandfather would scalp your jerk 

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hmmmmmm.....don't think so....

what!