Commander Riker

PS. I hope we're still friends Alain. <3

Alain... if I used a gun as regularly as I used a vehicle... I could see potentially the case for similar regulation.

For example... if I buy a vehicle and it sits on my property 100%... it should never have to be registered or insured. But since I drive it daily... it should be inspected and I have to pay for a license every year. While quite a bit of that is arguably for recurring money purposes to the government, I don't see why a CCW would be much different.

Aren't hours required for a CCW? I think they are. Do you have to renew? I believe you do.

You or I are more likely to be killed in a car accident in this country then a firearm related incident. I live in the dirty south... and you live in Chicago. Welcome to the opposite sides of the US lol

Alain... you said they were for different purposes... but then you show me different marketing.

First. If someone is in marketing... they should kill themselves. (*credit bill hicks)

Second. Marketing doesn't sway me. I can buy an M16, or an M4, or even an M1 Garand... none of these things instill in me a desire to "professionally kill people." They are just guns. Inanimate objects that do not do anything until a PERSON commands them to.

Let's talk about the personification of evil. Because I believe weapons have been labeled or are believe to be evil, which they are not. Just as a tiger who comes into your village and eats your kid is not evil... your kid was just simply the slowest.

Mass murders are terrible... and I do not defend or condone those acts. People are fucked up... and until you see that, you cannot see the forest full of trees. Why people do not wish to see other people as the problem is beyond me. Maybe we might find fault in ourselves? I don't know.

While we're at it... I would like to additionally point out that I feel I'm a person from a fairly middle position... and that the anti-gun crowd is prone to insinuating a "better then you" position because somehow they feel they are more humane or more enlightened or something. Every person I've met, regardless of this position that each of us hold, has been very cool and no one has been shot. It saddens me that you would lend to allow the terrible deranged shitty acts of a select minority dictate the restrictions upon US ALL. Fuck them. They suck.

A car isn't a weapon until I decide that I want to use it as one. A gun isn't a weapon until I decide that I want to use it as one. Claiming their difference is their designed purpose is a cop out, IMO. You know... I could potentially drown in a swimming pool. Therefore, we should ban swimming pools. Their intension was never for parties, arm floaties, and good times... we all know pools were secretly designed to drown people. (sarcasm)

Either are capable of killing people if a person decides to use them for that. Either can be used for fun if a person decides to use them for that. I could use a pool to splash someone... or drown them... if I decided to use it for that.

Those who are against the right to bear arms seem to never put the people into the equation. They are unwilling to see that the people are the root cause of the problem.

I motion to ban people.

That's a fair description and I respect your position.

I'm not a gun nut, though I'm sure Mike would say otherwise. I do enjoy shooting them for the sake of doing it, because I'm a geek. That you touched on... it's like anything else... it's mechanical and the science behind weaponry is really cool to me.

However, I'm against the regulations you purpose because you are stating policies employed by other governments, which are vastly different from ours. I do not trust our government AT ALL. I trust governments abroad more then I trust my own, because at the end of the day, they do not do anything well. Nothing. At all.

Having 3-6 month mental evaluations I feel is a bit extreme... or having an ongoing re-registration. That isn't going to do anything against someone who wants to be an asshole in that instant. If they want to cause harm, they are going to do it.

As far as sandy hook and all that... I understand the fears... I work at a school. However, none of the legislation you cited or potential reforms in registration habits would ensure that wouldn't happen. Which is why I believe that guns don't kill people... people kill people. Being in this school, I've got to witness as a direct result of sandy hook swat teams practice on active shooter drills with the kids in class. They get zero warning, have to go into lockdown mode with lights off, silence, and doors locked... while they play out killing a guy in the halls. That to me does far more damage to this country psychologically then the actual school shooting will. On top of that, it conveys to a would be shooter, who is often a student of the institution that is shot up, how much power they would have for 10-15 minutes over everyone in the facility. Not good.

The argument of "people do not need above X level gun or X level power or X level capacity of rounds" doesn't make sense to me. If I were to follow that logic, that would suggest that X percentage of car accidents in the US involve vehicles that have modifications, thus making them X times more powerful. Therefore, we should regulate all modifications to be below a certain power level so as to keep people from potentially being killed by a modified vehicle. We should entrust our current government to make sure everyone drives a weak as possible vehicle to ensure someone doesn't maybe get hurt. Unrealistic. Would you want that?

Education of weapons and how they work I would do wonders. I had to learn myself, and once I had cleaned a weapon and fired it, I had vastly larger amounts of respect for them.

I'm do not align myself with left or right parties... in fact, fuck a whole bunch of our failed two party system. But I feel that people should be allowed to do whatever they want, as long as they are not treading on others.

Alain, would you support a prohibition and/or confiscation of the people's weapons? I ask this regardless the constitutionality matter.

I do not mind the idea of registration with the initial purchase from a dealer... but do not agree with registration of sales between friends, or having to keep that registration current, or having to carry insurance on a weapon (which is what I think ultimately that leads to)

Those who would try to use law to dictate what others cannot have would love to price weapons out of reach. I bought my mossberg 500 tactical for 330 bucks brand new... and I didn't even haggle with the dealer, who ran a background check on me and made me sign paperwork before purchasing.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

I for one feel those with mental illness... committed or have obvious mental issues, probably shouldn't have readily available access to firearms say from a store or swap meet. However, I do recognize that if perverted, that could lead to everyone be diagnosed mentally ill if they like guns, so it would fail (us). Am I right?

I think guns are like playing with Cobras

witty remark

Alain is actually a really really smart guy. Also one of the nicest members I've met personally on this forum. He has different views perhaps then I do on issues... but I didn't see him being aggressive.

But my point is... there are obviously different schools of thought on this issue... and like all the political mess in this country... just digging in and attacking someone else for those different views has become a national pastime. Fuck you baseball... move over... get out of the way for our new greatest legacy... "hating the other guy." Just in case you aren't aware, it does nothing in the way of convincing a different viewed person from taking on a different perspective if even for a minute. Admittedly, I've probably been too hard on Mike because I get riled up too, I get it.

While I do not share it, people often have pride for the areas in which they live. It must be extremely frustrating to be a fan of Chicago when the city, like others, has a dark side to it. It just so happens that they tried the "ban guns" route generally speaking, we see that as evidence that gun bans, like almost all prohibition (war on drugs, I'm looking at you...) simply doesn't work. However, that doesn't mean all parts of Chicago are terrible. I've been to some really nice places... like Lee's, Alain's, Tommy's, Justus/Joe's JJFAB shop, etc. Hell, I was totally digging on a little town just due north of Chicago... it was awesome there.

Don't like guns? Don't own one.

Like guns? Cool. Don't be a dick about it and carry it around at chucky cheese's screamin' about the constitution.

Just my two cents... which at the current rate the dollar is devaluing... blah blah blah

While I tend to agree with you technically Deimos... please know that sometimes a message can be lost in it's delivery. Being condescending doesn't often lend that you are trying to share a point of something with someone... but just comes across as wanting to put them down for their different views, which doesn't achieve anything.

Sorry, I meant to say "assault" weapons. You don't have to explain to me that what makes them "assault" is their cosmetics.

When it comes to crimes... I would bet the shot gun is the most dangerous and even perhaps most frequent weapon used. I remember reading their use went up after the 94' AWB.

Shot mine today. Good fun.

Is that the one where the groups flip flop on their opinions?

Yes.

Watching Always Sunny season 9.. episode 2. Thinking of you guys. "Gun Fever Too: Still Hot"

lol @ people blaming video games for societies woe's. I have played games my who life, including pretty much every shooter and GTA starting back in the early days of Doom and Marathon. Never do I even think about them when I am handling a firearm.

Well, this thread was about the ban on automatic weapons... which I feel are rarely used in mass shootings.

My point is this, Alain, and I was being very general... as stated above, prohibition on things is pretty clear. As stated... alcohol... prohibition didn't work. "war on drugs" Doesn't work. Banning weapons, as it has been attempted... doesn't work.

I'm not putting Chicago down... all urban areas develop urban problems. I've enjoyed each and every visit to Chi-town with the exception of one conference... and even then, I got drunk at one point and was having a blast.

But the fact remains... weapons are banished there... and gun crimes are still prevalent.

Poor Jose Canseco.

Just because other people are armed, I do not feel a need to be constantly armed. I know that 99.9% of them are good people not looking to cause ill will. It's that .01% dickhead rate that creates the fears experienced by the anti-gun crowd, IMO. That gives them waaaaaay to much power and control if you live in fear of that.

Responsible firearm owners are just that... responsible.

Because they're delusional,

I think that's a little rough. I don't think people who don't have weapons who lack the desire or interest in them are delusional. The majority of people are often indifferent.

Went shooting today. Felt great.

How about help people not be mentally disturbed? Or respond to them when they need help so it's never a consideration in the first place?

I personally feel that you could have about the same effect rate of outlawing "unruly behavior" just as well as guns. What troubles me is that we do not look at this from a mental health perspective. In fact, we've abandoned our mental health efforts in this country... which has led to some of the atrocities that you see today.

You must see an issue fully before just trying to "ban this thing" and expecting results.

Precisely why we need to get rid of the guns

I didn't say living in fear is at all rational. It's not. Well... unless you live somewhere were people blow themselves up at random for a fictional being. You know... they should probably ban suicide bombings while we are at it, right?