RAzOR

Besides thats a yahoo address.

Which means? :blink:

Jena,

This is one topic I feel I have to absolute solution to. And I am saddened at how this issue has exposed the raw, corrupt, and weak side our country and our government.

Illegal immigrants are just that- illegal. They are not legally allowed to be here, live here, or be here in any way shape or form. Yet they are here- in huge numbers.

How is this? Simple- we let them.

We also ignore them for everything except work. As uncounted, non-taxable residents, they create a de facto "slave class". This is doing horrible things to both them and the country they seek to live in.

The only place it is helping is the country of Mexico (and in a similar but far lesser degree, Guatemala, El Salvador, etc)- but more on that later.

How does this hurt? Foremost, it keeps them from assimilating as they otherwise normally would have. It creates segregation, it creates alienation. As their numbers grow, so does the tumorous slave-society within our own. Foreign to our scoiety, our system, yet living within it.

From all of the illegal immigrants I have talked with, and there are many, virutally all have expressed a great respect for this country and emphatically desire to live here, bring their families here, and most importantly- become Americans and speak English.

Yet with the status quo, they cannot. They are held in a sort of suspended animation neither truly here, nor truly not. They cannot count on becoming Americans. And they continue to work for below the minimum wage off the radar screen. They live in fear- fear of deportation, exploitation- yet they remain becasue they are desperate. Why would anyone bother to learn the language of a country that does not acknowldge them, let alone embrace them as it's long traditon?

And many have told me that there are too many of themselves here. That they are now competing for the same low paying work and that they may now find even harder to make a living here.

The status quo cannot remain. It cannot remain until anyone who wants to live here can- lest we forget about 4.9 billion Chinese who also want to come here- perhaps even more desperately.

So when is it enough? It is enough now. I t may have been enough 6 million of them ago. I am wholly convinced that "enough", at least for now, was surpassed long ago.

I could go on and on about the situtation but I really get worked up on this topic. I get very angry at both Democrats and Republicans for their innaction and the damage this is causing our way of life and to these immigrants who only seek what you and I would, had we been in their situation. And they are here because we let them. We do not seriously enforce the border, we do not check for legal residency. We and we ALONE enable this to occur.

Why is this so? My latest and favorite theory is the Mexican government wants the status to remain and they lobby hard and secretively. Maybe even violently. The American dollars flowing into Mexico from these illegals is the largest single flow of cash revenue into Mexico. Should these poeple be deported-it stops. Should they be made legal immigrants, which means that their families can now live here too- it stops. This is the only plausible and powerful interest I have identified other than a weaker but compatible theory that our so-called "leaders" are afriad to act due to the political fallout.

It makes me sick.

The solution is simple.

1. Enforce the border tomorrow. Enforce it well and thoroughly. Of course we can defend our borders. We are a country. We are a powerful country. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a fool.

2. Give a 90 day (or so) window of amnesty whereby anyone in the US can apply for and become a legal immigrant provided they pass the standard tests and exams. After this window, ANYONE without proper residency status is efficiently arrested, heard and deported. NO if's, and's, or but's.

This solution requires no new laws only will.

It is a win-win for the US and those who are here and seek to become part of it.

It also seems very, very far away.

Electric motors can far outperform combustion engines. They are far more simple and make peak torque at zero RPM. The problem is and only is BATTERIES. But its a big problem.

Fuck Joe Arpaio, as someone who lived in Phoenix, that son of a bitch should focus on detering the tons of crime that is being committed instead of just grabbing attention for himself by blabbering about his fucking agenda and being a dick to inmates. God I'm glad I'm out of that retarded ass town.

He should be the biggest male appendage he can be to those who have earned it. And it's called a deterrent. If you think having serial killers, child pornographers, rapists, and other violent offenders wearing pink pants and working is cruel and unusual, you might want to seek some perspective. Maybe the victims of their crimes can give you that perspective.

We

Are

Screwed.

...don't forget that republicans have the best smear machine in the world...

Which is what? The main stream media? No, wait- they're neutral. Hillary talking like a "southun belle" to the crowd in Selma, IL over the weekend? Nah, that's not news. Now Coulter using "faggot"- THAT'S NEWS!

Gimme a break. Sure Republicans/Conservatives have a piece of talk radio but that's it.

MSM continues to stroke the public under the guise of impartiality all the while being very selective of what is news and what isn't. I mean look at them bury the Hillary thing. She's DEAD but they won't admit it and they circle the wagons.

I'd call that a helluva machine right there.

If you don't like it there why don't you move?

I love it actually! I wish we had it here in Kaliforneeyah

We would never tolerate such cruel, unusual, wholly deserved, and utterly effective incarceration here in the People's Republic of Kaleefornya!!

American Corporations AND Foreign ones have a tremendous influence on our government. They also have a tremendous impact on each of us directly as well.

I don't things are much different today than they were a hundred years ago.

Wow! You are kooky, you said we could call you that if we want.

1. Democracy I thought, meant that people were entitled to their own beliefs, religion, and cultural values. Why does the US, a democratic country, insist on being 'undemocratic' in that other people cannot have whatever worldview/religious/cultural beliefs that they want, including iron-fisted theocracy?

2. If the US had better foreign policy, ie. you leave Iran alone, do not provoke them, nor impose American values on them, steal their oil, Iranians in general (not extremists) are nice people. They want to provide for their families, they want to put food on the table...

3. extremists whether they are Iraqi, Iranian or American should be dealt with.

Violence begets violence.

1. No. Democracy is rule of the people. The US only has a problem with a country or people when they threaten us. This can be militarily, economically, or any other way deemed a threat.

2. We are not STEALING their oil. We pay for it. Ever heard of OPEC? We pay a lot. We've made their countries some of the richest in the world. We are so hands off, that we let their governments DO WHAT THEY WANT with the money which has lead to some very rich and very poor people in the same country.

For the record, The EU, US, Russia, Britian, etc, could easily smash and occupy the middle east and steal the oil. They DO NOT. They pay. But at the same time we all NEED this oil. Noone can be allowed to jeapordize this. Saddam tried this in 91 when he invaded Kuwait and burned the oil fields. This THREATENS our way of life and cannot be tolerated.

Imagine how much cheaper just taking their oil would be.

And I have no problem with the Iranian poeple. I married one. But their government is taking them down a very dangerous road. And they are all "IRAN". By the US dismantling their government, maybe the pro-Shah Iranians will rise again and create a new governement that is not religeous.

3. Why? If they are harmless and pose no threat, let them be. Scientologists are extremists, but they play by the rules of society.

Let it be noted that we typically won't get involved in such things unless they have some kind of benefit for us, another harsh reality of the real world .

Or if the current situation poses a risk to our way of life- as in threats to the oil supply.

Either was Iraq, but the US still has it's hands full at the current time. Invading another country would just be plain stupid. But hey alot of stupid people still want it. To each his own.

I don't think "want it" it the right term. "Think it is crucial for success" might be more accurate.

Yes, the US's hands are full ground-troop-wise but only because it is policing Iraqi streets. I am not sure how much this effects its overall offensive capability. My guess is "not much".

Invading Iran is not significant militarily.

In the case you didn't know, Iran's government is an iron-fisted theocracy. A Theocracy is a religously ruled country or people. We have seen that the extreme version of Islam- that the suicide bombers hold- is the same as that of the Iranian government. In fact many suspect the Iranian governement as assisting in this program.

Who's to say they won't try to eliminate their religous enemy, Israel, with their nukes the first chance they get? They are not concerened about dying apparently, so why would they need a better reason other than have the chance at destroying the most hated enemy of their God? Who cares if it means their own obliteration?

THAT is what sets them apart from North Korea mainly.

I hope all of you who are not sure of the differences now see that there exists a very severe difference. The North Koreans do not want to die. The Iranian leadership and its millions welcomes it as martrydom. To give people with this mentality nukes seems like a bad, bad idea to me. Call me kooky if you want to.

THAT is why I don't want them to have a bomb. THAT is why it should matter. They prove every day in Baghdad that they are not afraid to die and in fact, welcome, death as a means to their end.

And the need to invade might be more pressing than thought of. Iran's nuke program is hardened.

HAAHH you the last hope for Cali man. As for invading it would be cake as long we were were under the right SOP. Whats gonna screw up hippies heads is if we ever fight in a theater again were we do not have air superiority.

Tonight they are gathering for a love-in around my house.

And it looks like air superioirity shouldn't be a problem for a good while...

CVN-21 Program

So that means your not going, Right?

Are all neo cons Paper Tigers?

Yeah lets go destroy someone, except you do it and I'll root for you safe and sound at home.

School Bell! You do not know your terms.

Paper Tiger: The phrase paper tiger is a literal English translation of the Chinese phrase zhi laohu (紙老虎), meaning something which seems as threatening as a tiger, but is really harmless The common usage is synonymous with the adjective toothless, meaning ineffective.

You mean "Chickenhawk"

Chickenhawk is an epithet used in United States politics to criticize a politician, bureaucrat, or commentator who votes for war, supports war, commands a war, or develops war policy, but has not personally served in the military.

You may now drop and give me twenty.

Why do you care, your not going.

What are saying? That only those that go, care? Wanna think about that?

So let me get this straight, the US miltary is unable to control stuff passing over a border or keep any kind of peace in Iraq (with Afghanistan still an unstable shithole) but successfully invading a reasonably well armed country would be peanuts.

Iraq was a pushover because they had no serious firepower left and because the military couldnt give a toss. Iran would by no means be as easy, or as short, and it has the capability to wreak havoc on "countries" within some distance. All this with Iraq a huge mess getting worse by the day where the US military is already hugely underpowered.

Sure, Iran could be invaded but the result would be even less desirable than how the last 2 fuckups turned out. At this point I am sure nothing like this is being seriously contemplated. Heck i'd bet all my money there wont be an invasion of Iran in the next years to come.

The time has come to just let the middle east meddle in its own stupidity, you cant introduce real democracy in those countries stuck in the dark ages. If you want less terrorists then stop giving people reasons (as dumb as they may be) to become one. All the collateral damage and negative PR these wars create produces a heck of a lot more suicidal idiots than you can ever get rid of with guided bombs.

I disagree. The US can't even control it's border with Mexico. And the border netween Iran and Iraq is long.

As for Iran well armed, no it isn't. It was equaly decimated against Iraq in their war and they have not done much rebuilding. Don't confuse numbers with effectiveness. Iran's military is a MINOR consideration. I mean look, they are still trying to get their F-14s flying. As further evidence, examine what happened to Iraq's huge militray in 1991 (deemed fourth largest in the world) when they were driven out of Kuwait very easily. Baghdad was half a day away. The Republican Guard was insignificant. Since then the US military has modernized, but yes, shrunk. The US is already o the ground and Tehran is a few days drive away.

The US is bogged down not because we haven't won militarily, but because we are trying to build a nation. I agree that the US is not so stupid so as to try to build Iran as well. Nor is that needed for reasons I pointed out in the first post.

I am all for letting the Middle East do as you say in regards to stupidity. There's just one little catch- oil.

Once western civilization can do without oil, let them have at each other.

... Unless he jumps on a plane himself and starts a private one.

Now that would be a "cowboy" thing to do.

The Dems aren't in full control by any means. And personally, I see no choice if the US hopes to be successful in Iraq. I don't see how ANY negotiation with theocrats ever works at all. It's like negotiating with a religeous cult. Their policy is not based on logic so much as it is faith, a higher purpose, and religeon. This is, to me, a diplomatic solution impossibility. And if the US can't stop their flow of disruption and weapons across the border into Iraq, what other choice does it have?

I think the possibility of invasion is very real that's why Putin went crazy the other night- he's taking it seriously.

Lots of intimidation from Georgie and the Generals. They've got lotsa physical evidence Iran is directly and officially involved with killing our soldiers and lots of Iraqis in Iraq

Military victory would be simple. I just don't want another Iraq-building venture as that is an ENTIRELY different thing and it is, IMHO, not needed with Iran.

I think the plan should be go there, remove the regime, get the nukes, and GET OUT. Three week time span.

The situation is different than Iraq- no cultural sectarian tensions and a westernized populace ala the Shah era. In other words, they should be able to create a new governement without too much trouble provided the current Theocratic regime is sufficiently decimated.

I think to not stop the flow of crap Iran is jamming into Iraq to kill our soldiers and countless Iraqis will all but guarantee we cannot win there.

I'm part of the "wait-and-see" group but one thing bothers me- Why didn't/won't Evolve give him the car they had promised him? It seems that a deal like that would be clear enough to both sides.

I just don't feel I am getting the whole story simply because Evolve is a big, reputable outfit (to the extent I've known them which is not substantial). Their behaviour here is inconsistent with that repute. This issue has nothing but perilous downside for them.

I strongly suspect there exists a compelling reason that Evolve won't simply sink the relatively moderate amount money in to complete the deal. A reason we aren't privy too.

Sure the car is nice, buit its not outrageously nice. It's not a horrific amount of money, especially with the loads of bad PR that could come from this.

Out of curiosity, I will be watching and waiting, but until then I'm not going waste another second of my time analyzing the info I've been given.

fInk Lixed. Wasnt' not I durnk. Noep.

i like the new thread title much better... and it'll get more hits now.

Jack Meoff

Fighting Evil Wherever it Parties

"The prosecutor general charged the 20 with 'drinking, arranging for impudent party, mixed dancing and shooting a video for the party,'"

"The defendants were among 433 foreigners, including some 240 women, arrested by the kingdom's religious police for attending the party in Jiddah"

You know what? I feel the same way about dancing. It should be illegal.

I know who you are.

i agree. however. the pictures dont lie about the workmenship and for those of us who have seen this car first hand can tell u that the quaility is very poor. I drove the car 30 miles after it arrived in PA., it was not near the performer it is claimed to be from evolve.

i am not trying to be an a** but i have seen, driven and worked on this car.

You are right. In fact the pics indicate to me that this car never made it out of the test mule stage.