bob82pigdog

This is serious stuff. Love it. Can't wait to see this come together in the Spring.

Some people push cocaine, I push custom made Volvo electronics.

That's fine with me.

Nooo! Bummer about the cracks. Awesome write up, though. Thanks for sharing.

The black ones give you more powah!

Definitely digging the 93 lights.

It's overdue, (sorry) but I do have an update on this situation. I know everyone has been on the edge of their seats. The short story is I got my money back! The long story is the shop replied to the credit card company with a letter stating their case and why the charge back should be cancelled. At which point the credit card company did cancel the charge back. I was given a chance to respond to that letter and eventually I did get the money back. It was scary because I had to wait 90 days for the case to close. At any time they could have changed their mind had the shop responded again in a way that would convince the card company to do so. The shop's letter to the card company was really generic and in order to convince the card company they did their job correctly and everything was all my fault they tried to use stupid buzzwords that nontechnical people who don't know anything about cars would use. They said things like, "The customer provided heavy duty custom parts" and that the parts I provided required them to "modify the hydraulics, which was labor intensive." They also said the transmission and parts I provided were for a completely different chassis. I see where they were trying to go with that but we know better. Lastly they said the "Frankenstein approach" of mixed parts was at fault. Basically a load of crap and it absolutely had my blood boiling when I had the chance to read it. All my language arts assignments and technical writing classes came together for me in this one event. I understand why I had to go through all those classes now. I put together 3 pages of what I would consider my finest piece of literary technical persuasion smackdown! With my letter I included screenshots and descriptions of all the parts I supplied the shop. I used the same card so they could verify my purchases. The clutch line and slave/ throwout bearing were OEM Volvo, so I believe that helped to make it clear that no "custom" parts by any definition were used. I tried to prove that the shop was grasping for an excuse by saying things that were inaccurate and plain untrue about the parts I brought them. I went through my best explanation of the technical aspects of the parts involved and made it clear there were some differences but nothing that was incompatible like the shop was alleging. The icing on the cake was the receipt and report from the second shop saying they found, "loose pressure plate bolts. No additional parts were required to complete this repair." I think I was able to make my case that the first shop was negligent and refused to own up to their mistake. A long frustrating process but I believe justice was served. I didn't charge back the full amount of the work, just the extra I had to pay the second shop to diagnose and fix. Update part 2: The pink anaerobic sealant I used to seal up the transmission case is still holding up fine. No gear oil is leaking out.

You guys have all been great at helping me work this out physically and mentally. For that, I'm very thankful.

Yesterday morning I walked into the first shop with a receipt and write up of the work performed by the second shop and asked for them to refund me the labor that the second shop charged. It was a decent bit less than the total I paid for their original labor. I feel that that's fair as others have said above. The technician didn't believe the diagnosis. He said he remembered tightening the PP bolts. Haha. The shop manager blew up pretty quickly. I don't think I've been yelled at like that by a person who wasn't my father. It wasn't fun. He said, angrily, things like, "You don't think we'd have warrantied our labor?", "I told you we wouldn't pay for someone else's work.", "You trusted us to do this job in the first place, why didn't you trust us to fix it?", "I told you we'd take it apart and not charge you if it was our fault." He made it sound like I didn't give them the chance to make things right, and that I had been unreasonable in pulling the car and taking it somewhere else. The thing is though, last Friday when I was trying to figure out what to do, the manager displayed no confidence that they could figure it out. I knew how the technician felt; that either the old trans had to go back in factory configuration or I had to bring them the parts to create factory dual mass configuration. Both bogus options! The manager did not take a clear and confident stance that I should let them take it apart and figure out what was wrong. They had made their minds up that the newer transmission wasn’t working with a SMF and I knew they were wrong! So the fact was, yes I did not have confidence they could fix it at that point and I was ready to take it to someone that could. The tech was blinded by the mix of parts and wasn't able to imagine that he might have screwed up. When I talked with the guy it was clear that he thought any further work would be pointless since he was convinced the parts were wrong. I'm not the type of person to puff my chest up even when I KNOW I am right. There is always that small chance I'm wrong. The way I saw it was, if I screwed something up with the wrong parts, or I re-assembled the transmission incorrectly, I was gonna have to pay double labor anyway. So I had to make a choice: leave it with the same guys who insisted the parts wouldn't work and I knew they were wrong or take it to a place that I deemed competent via a phone conversation explaining the situation. Especially knowing what we know now, isn't it reasonable to assume that the first shop could have taken it apart and made the same error again? Taking it apart, putting it back together, charging me twice, and still having a car that won't go into gear and nobody knows why! I thought my best bet was to go with the new shop that I trusted to fix things. I filed a claim with the credit card company to refund the amount of the second shop’s labor. I still didn’t think it would be right to go for the whole amount. They have 11 days to respond with their side of the story at which point the card company may ask for more details like a copy of the report from the second shop, etc. I think I have a pretty good case, but who knows what defense the shop will come up with. We’ll see what happens. The whole situation has me feeling really bad. I’ve had some small things done at the first shop and I liked the people there. The manager told me to never come back, BTW. The shop put in the time, they probably need the money, and I don’t wanna be the reason they don’t make payroll or a shop owner comes crashing down on somebody. If the same thing happened with all OEM parts and I hadn't performed operation on the trans case, I would have been confident the only option was that they screwed something up. And they probably would have been confident in that, too. I would have let them take it apart, discover the loose PP bolts, put it back together and pay in full. Everyone's happy. But, that’s not the way the cookie crumbles.

I see. Good thoughts, Hussein! That all makes logical sense. No funky noises that I can hear. A slight whine at lower speed tight turning. I've been assuming that is LSD related. If the backlash is decreased due to the case halves being slightly closer together due to the thinner sealant, I guess that means the internals are all being pushed in on both sides by the case a bit more. Does that just mean the bearings wear out a bit faster? Or does it put additional stress on the clusters and hinder gear changing? Just trying to think about what harm it could do and how to keep on the lookout for it. Still no leaks. I'm gonna clean it all up and keep my eyes on it for fresh oil. Then try to stop worrying. I've had Volvo transmissions keeping me up at night for a long time.

Yes, good solid info that should be stickied. Hussein, do you know why it isn't the right stuff? As in chemical properties, not strong enough, not compatible with gear oil, etc.? I dug up a thread from 2012 and it sounds like a few people have had success with the pink anaerobic. Not saying it's the proper stuff but here's to hoping it holds up anyway. I still don't see any seapage on the tranny and no oil on the driveway.

Got the car back and it feels great! One last problem. The tech that did the work said the tranny case is already leaking at the parting line. He said the pink Volvo sealant is the wrong stuff and gear oil will eat through it. And that some type of RTV should have been used. I asked about this in an older post and 2 or 3 people said the pink stuff is what to use! Who's wrong about the sealant? I looked up under the car and it still seemed dry. I'll watch for a puddle in the morning. I think I'll die if I have to pull that gearbox again. No more money to pay for someone else to do it this time but still no good place for me to do the work.

Thanks for all the replies and help! Yes, I paid with a card so hopefully I'm covered there. I'll give them the chance to refund me just the cost of shop 2's work. Otherwise I'm going full amount with a charge back. Can't wait to roll up in my wagon with parts that don't work together.

Shop number 2 works fast! (Turns out the tech used to own and maintain an 850R.)They called to report an improperly tightened pressure plate. None of the bolts were tight! Unbelievable.They compared my original clutch and PP, which were in the back seat, to the SPEC parts and said they are correct. I had them take pictures and they know the situation so they are going to provide documentation for me. The car should be put back together by tomorrow morning. I still won't be able to breathe easy until I get the call that everything is all back together and the car functions properly. Wish me luck on getting the first shop to pay me back! I don't want to screw them over. I just want them to pay me back the cost at shop number 2, work that wouldn't have been necessary had they done the work properly.

Wow, I'm surprised how similar your DMF PP looks. I thought it woould be super easy to see the differences in the pictures. Personally I didn't compare the SPEC parts to stock. Frikkin A, though. I hope the shop would have. That's wrenching 101 basic stuff. Transmission shop just called and confirmed it is some issue with the pressure plate and/ or clutch. Hydraulics look good. He said the throw of the bearing looks normal just not engaging the fingers enough. It looks like either SPEC sent the wrong PP or it's not torqued down right. SPEC doesn't cover labor on their warranty so if it turns out they sent me the wrong part, I will have paid for this job to be done twice! I gave the shop the go ahead to tear it back down so we can finally see the problem.

H, I actually found an older post of yours saying that the masters made no difference. Only difference is that nub for a safety switch. So I'm off that idea now. Thanks for the clarification. Unless they shelved these shiny new parts I gave them and installed something else, my car should definitely have a pre VIN break clutch and PP correctly mated with a SMF. Is there anything fishy looking about these parts? I sure don't think so.

The indy Volvo shop said they were done troubleshooting because they "know" the problem is my non OEM setup. They gave me two options: 1.) Bring them the dual mass flywheel from the parts car to convert my wagon to full OEM combination or reinstall the original transmission. F**kers. The tech that was working on my car was too high up on his anti "hot rodders" horse to see things clearly. Definitely not an outside the box kind of guy. I found a transmission shop around the corner from the first shop and I'm getting the car towed there tomorrow. I talked with the manager and he seemed very knowledgeable and understood what I'm trying to do with my transmission slave swap. He seemed confident he could find the problem one way or another and provide written documentation if they find the first shop's work in error. Unless something is wrong with the clutch or pp SPEC sent, either the shop screwed something up with the install, or I screwed something up when I put the transmission back together. I'm anxious for the transmission shop to assess the situation. I just hope it's not internal to the transmission and something that is my fault. Thanks for sharing that link Dirty Noodle. Very similar to what my car is doing, but hope they don't have to take everything apart again! I'm still crossing my fingers that it's something simple!!

All right. This sounds like a decent plan. I haven't found a mod friendly Volvo specialist in my area, but there is another decent indy Volvo shop that I could call. I'll see what they think. Is the most likely culprit that the clutch disc was installed backwards? What other things could have been incorrectly installed? Is there any way to prove that the throw out distance is the same between the two styles of bearings? Or does anyone have positive proof that the throw out distance is the same? This is the only thing that the shop's argument hinges on; that the new style bearing does not have enough reach to engage the pressure plate. The guy said the stack height of the dual mass, clutch and pressure, plate is higher than a single mass, thus the newer style bearing doesn't throw as far.

That's what all the evidence points to! But since I didn't play by the book, they think me Frankenstein-ing the parts together is the problem! The guy is not an enthusiast so he is thinking of everything from the perspective that, "These parts weren't designed to go together, this guy's an idiot. It's his fault it's not working because he told us to install these wrong parts." They are not going to think outside of the box. If they did actually mess something up on the install, how could I prove to them that they did? I'm kind of screwed. I might have to tow home a car that I just dropped a lot of coin on that doesn't run. My last shot is to try and measure the throw of the two different style bearings on my old transmission. If I can show them that the throw is the same, maybe we can figure something else out. Only problem is their time isn't free. They're not my buddies trying to help me figure this thing out. How do you know the clutch master won't make a difference though? I couldn't find a lot of solid information on them and how they are different.

No stupid questions at this point! I saw the stickers on the clutch that you are talking about, but I have no idea if they installed it properly. That's exactly why I hate paying a shop to work on my cars. I just don't have the time or space to do the work right now so my hand was forced. I visited the shop this morning. The clutch pedal feels great. With the motor on and the clutch pedal pushed in the shifter will not go into gear. It doesn't grind, it just feels like something is preventing the shifter cables from budging. But with the motor off I can move the shifter through the gears so I think the cables are fine. If I move the shifter into first with the motor off, then turn the motor on I can let off the clutch and first gear has been engaged and the car lurches forward. But then I can't get it back out of first until I turn the car back off. I think the shop technician is pretty pissed at me, and he says the newer style throwout bearing doesn't have enough throw to engage the pressure plate fingers. I don't know how all the other guys with DMF setups convert their cars to single mass and keep the internal slave then?! That brings me back to the clutch master thing. That's the only thing I can see different about my car and one of the newer swapped cars. I'm gonna have them install the newer style master from my parts car and see if that changes anything.

I'm in the middle of having a shop replace my clutch with a SPEC stage 2 (part # SO132) for a 1998 pre VIN break single mass flywheel car. While they are at it I asked them to re-install a more fresh M56 from a 98 S70 internal slave car instead of my old transmission which has a bad 2nd gear. Basically they are converting my factory single mass flywheel external slave car to an internal slave car. They just called today and said it's all back together but the car won't go into gear. Frick. They said they bled the line twice and it looks fine and that the clutch pedal feels fine as well. They think I ordered the wrong parts because they say since the transmission is from a post VIN break car it needs a post VIN break clutch and pressure plate. I tried to convinced them that what matters is the clutch and pressure plate need to match the corresponding flywheel style and that the transmission itself doesn't matter. I told them plenty of people have swapped their dual mass flywheels to singles still using the internal slave. Last week I gave them the newer transmission with a new internal slave/ throw out bearing installed and a new clutch line for the internal slave cars. I kept the same clutch master cylinder installed since I couldn't find evidence that it needed to be changed for the internal slave swap. Many people with factory dual mass flywheels and internal slaves have successfully swapped to single mass flywheels and a corresponding SMF clutch. But, as far as I know, the only thing different between my car and one of those newer swapped cars at this point is the clutch master cylinder. There are 2 part numbers for them based on the VIN breaks and they look slightly different. My theory is that the older style clutch master isn't supplying enough pressure or displacing enough fluid to move the throw out bearing into the pressure plate fingers, thus keeping it from going into gear. I'm thinking if I have them swap on the newer style clutch master I might be OK. How does that theory sound? After I installed the Quaife and resealed the case, I turned the input shaft and shifted through all the gears. Everything felt fine. If it's not going into gear it's gotta be something with the slave/ throw out not traveling enough, right? What else could keep it from getting into gear? Could anything be going on with the shift cables maybe? I'm going to stop by the shop first thing in the morning and see if I can see what the TOB is doing by peeling back the dust cover where the clutch line goes into the transmission case. Depending on what I can see with the TOB, I might try shifting with the levers on top of the transmission to see if it will go in gear. Let me know what ideas you have! See different clutch master cylinders here: http://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/43753/Clutch-Master-Cylinder-KG19004704/

HAH! That's exactly where I had planned on buying a new elastomer from! It took me forever to find that site myself. I should have posted that bike here sooner. Thanks for sharing the link. I am going to buy the new elastomer and ship it and the fork to Mendon Cyclesmith in New York to have them rebuild it. I was really close to converting to a "normal" fork until I stumbled across the guys that make elastomers for them. There is nowhere else in the world that I found that makes elastomers to rebuild these old turds except suspensionforkparts.net. I already have enough bikes with regular forks so I'm excited to keep this one as it came.

Thanks! Headshok is blown on it and really I paid too much. But c'mon, a Volvo Cannondale? I drive a Volvo and live in Atlanta! I couldn't pass it up. It looks great on my roof rack! Headshok is getting rebuilt soon and some components will be updated. I can't decide if I want to single speed it or keep it geared. It has XTR components except the crank, shifters and front deralleur.

Here are my current bikes My daily, 2003 Specialized Enduro: For the road, Motobecane Immortal Force Jamis Dragon Singlespeed: My pride and joy, 1996 Atlanta Olympics Team USA Volvo Cannondale: Getting built soon, GT LTS "My wife's bike" Cannondale Jekyll:

So 3,600 miles ( ) in after I soldered in the diode on my ECU harness, I still have 5 monitors not ready two of which include O2 sensor and SAS. I know these cars take a long time to set the readiness monitors, I did the stupid 'readiness' procedure twice and it didn't work. No way it's gonna happen again, the roads around me don't really allow it. I am starting to worry that something might have gone wrong with my SAS delete diode install. I have already seen the SAS readiness monitor get set once about 300 miles after I soldered the diode in, but that was at the same time my CEL came on. After finding an evap leak and replacing the front O2 sensor, 3,600 miles later still no readiness. The 5 monitors that are incomplete are Catalyst Monitor, EVAP system monitor, SAS, Oxygen Sensor Monitor, and Oxygen Sensor Heater (?). I know the SAS delete diode involves an 02 sensor wire. Could the diode somehow be screwing with the O2 sensor readiness? Is there something fishy going on? Or do I need to just suck it up and keep driving until they reset? Here are some shots of my scanner: