dancetheman

+1

i'm afraid the whole point of evolution versus creation will never be solved despite the urls that are posted and here is my reason. Science is built on the scientific method correct? and the scientific method is a process in which observations are made and empirical evidence is gather and conclusions are made which are refutable by others who wish to attempt the same experiment and see if they can gather the same results. The scientific method also includes not throwing out theories when they are disproved but altering them so that they include new data.....so far so go?

so if you are a true scientist in these senses then you will never say evolution is wrong because it can never be disproved because the theory has only been out long enough to prove some aspects of it which include small alternations in species such as adaptation to pesticides by bugs. However, other things such as the complete creation of a new species due to evolution can never be proved unless millions of years have gone by and humans are still around and making observations.

saying that it is not yet falsified is safer than saying that it is true because basing all your evidence on things before mankind isn't the smartest way to make observations

and we all know we won't be alive to see the evolution of a completely new species because we only live 80 or so years

merry christmas

I will once again answer all of your questions. Just go to this website. All of this has been discussed and they have come up with a rather interesting answer. An answer i agree with.

The answer to all of your religious questions, now stop arguing, this site proves eveything

Thank you very much

i tried emailing them for some of their scientific sources and other parts of evidence that they had but i got no reply...anyone else have the same problem :P

I'm not sure we are looking at the same point. I'm not saying Christians today should be condemned becasue the Isrealites held slaves. I agree that you cannot hold people acountable today for the actions of their forefathers. What I am saying/trying to say is that since the actions of the ancestoral Isrealites were supposedly endorsed by God - ie written in the Bible, it stands to reason that either God was wrong or he changeds his mind based on the custom of the time - hardly Godlike.

Not until after I posted. So let me see if I get what you are saying. God allows man free will. Original sin, Adam and Eve, etc. So since the Isrealites wanted to enslave neighboring people and have a King, God says ok, but doesn't agree with it.

Now it seems to me reading the passages about having slaves that if this is the inspired word of God then he IS endorsing the use of slaves, even outlining the guidelines for which one can obtain and keep them. Isn't it more likely that man created this wording so that they seemed just in their actions?

I'm tiring of this conversation, not becasue I feel I am right and you are wrong just that I think much gets lost in the translation from ideas to words to keyboard. There isn't much you can say that will make me believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God as opposed to a book created by Man to guide early Jews in their beliefs. The fact that nearly every major religion has some version of a book inspired by Divinity leads me to conclude that it is part of the religious formula.

fair enough, we post here uber quickly

well if the Bible isn't inspired by God then there really is no Christianity which is what you also stand for

i'm just trying to show you that the way it is worded implies that God didn't endorse slaves neither did He not allow it

like smoking, we know it causes cancer and kills but it's still allowed by the goverment

same concept and i guess it's time to let this topic rest since you tire of it and it's not going anywhere...much like this thread haha

and i agree with v70r, God will either exist or not regardless of this thread

So if the Word of God condones slavery of other peoples from surronding nations, yet Christians today think slavery of others is wrong. Something doesn't gel. Either the Word of God is wrong, or Christians today are wrong. No?

This whole question of slavery points out the glaring concept (in my mind) that the Bible was constructed by man to incorporate God in his (man's) ideal, along with his (man's) beliefs and customs.

Please refer me to my other simple minded posts. I thought I made coherent and valid arguments.

did you even read what i wrote ?

let me try to clarify this

here is the verse being referred to

44As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. 45You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. 46You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly. Leviticus 25:44-46(ESV)

if you read it carefully, you will notice that it says you MAY buy male and female slaves...(verse 44) and in verse 46 You MAY make slaves of them. All of the bible is God's word and He allows the israelites to have slaves, He does not approve of it as does not permit them to have slaves amongst their own people but since they insist, He lets them. This is the type of God he is, to each is given free will. In this case the Israelites can choose to have slaves or not. And if you think this is the only version that has it i shall post two more examples...

(New American Standard)

44'As for your male and female slaves whom you may have--you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you.

45'Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession.

46'You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. (A)But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another.

(New International Version)

44 " 'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Now you can see that God doesn't like slavery but He permits it

therefore it does not really contradict anything. In the 21st cent. we now choose to outlaw slavery, that is the only difference because slavery was never really "ok" to begin with

I know most of you won't believe me when i say that it doesn't contradict so very well another example. The first king of the jews was Saul and it was never intended that Israel would have a king, God was suppose to be their only king but they demanded one from God and He ALLOWED it even though it wasn't what He wanted

And the LORD said to Samuel, "Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them. 1 Samuel 8:7

so there you guys go, God lets us choose but His stance on these matters is always the same. It is we that change :)

I love how you think Im referring to Christianity when I say the word religion.

these are the religions that have gods or supreme beings:

Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, and Christianity and perhaps some assorted cults

we should really make clear which one we are talking about but since i have no experience in any of those except Christianity i feel that it would be unfair to comment on any aspect of those religions

fair enough?

and we should really change the topic to say "arguements for and against Christianity" or "arguements for and against atheism"

:lol:

I completely agree with you, but you must remember that religion is not in any way logical, its about believing something that can't ever be proven to exist. and this is the easy way out because they choose to ignore the logical process of science. Everyone has their own choice about what to believe, but I will never believe in something which promotes ignorance.

the way you have spoken about science almost makes it seem that science and the scientific method is a religion in itself...

as a scienctist you must understand that science does not seek to prove or dispute things it cannot observe. science is limited to what can be observed and things like the soul and the mind and alot of things within our own bodies can never be understood. in the same way, Christianity is not out there to destroy science or vice versa (althought some groups may disagree). Rather it explains the relationship between us (humans) and God. You don't see the bible trying to disprove the laws of physics and stuff because there is no point, it is totally irrelavant to the point of Christianity.

Likewise, science will always only study what can be observed in the natural world. it is limited to this and to say that thoughts and beliefs about the spiritual world are illogical and do not comply with science is wrong because science itself does not seek to disprove these things :)

I also said following Jesus is not the same as a religion. And I return to the fact that our founding fathers designed the constitution that protects many of the right we have, including the right to deny or refuse to acknowledge God, from the 10 commandments and biblical principals and teachings. Trying to discredit someones views/beliefs by simply insulting their intelligence is not a valid argument either

well said.

lets remember what we are discussing is simply, is there a God or a Supreme Being. Not how religion is the crutch of the weak and has brainwashed people.

just like Raeleus said, following Jesus or God (we will use the Christian God in this case) is not the same thing as religion, rather it is a relationship between you and the Maker. You can choose to believe or choose not to believe however it is clearly laid out for you what happens depending on what you choose. What is wrong with that? There isn't a scam there, God says believe in Jesus and you will live, don't believe and you will die. He doesn't pick by random who goes to hell, there are no strings attached.

It's like breathing for us humans. As all you scientists know, if we don't breathe, we will die or our bodies will make us breathe. If we breathe then we continue to function. You can choose to do either one but you know well enough what happens depending on what you choose. It is just the way the universe is and how the human body functions.

Unfair? Hardly since the word has little meaning in this scenario. Fairness has nothing to do with heaven and hell, it is just the way things were laid out since the beginning of time like the law of gravity and such...it's the way the universe works and it will continue to work in such a way whether you think it suck, is unfair and so on.

Following Jesus has nothing to do with weak mindedness, rather people who would rather take the chance to live

This is a puzzling question, but keep in mind the periods of time we are dealing with. The first living organism appeared on earth 2,800,000,000 years ago. The earliest "human" existed 5 million years ago and the civilization with records is only a few thousand years old. The periods of time are just mind boggling, think of how long a year is then, then imagine a million of them, then 2,800 times that! Many changes have taken place from then until now, we are just limited in our scope of our lifetime and the liftime of our civilations history.

i think you're right, that amount of time is ridiculous and mind boogling, many changes probably have occurred since then but this is all based on an assumption that this world existed 2,800,000,000 years ago. How does one know carbon dating and all those tests are accurate. We don't, there is a pretty good chance they are right but you can't be certian just like in "religion". in science you still need some blind faith in the fact that the characteristics of carbon haven't changed since the beginning of time

and since we're talking about science, let's throw out a fun statistic or what you will call it

1) I believe in God and there is no God and i die (nothing gained nothing lost)

2) I don't believe in a God and there is one (nothing gained, eternal life lost)

3) I don't believe in a God and there isn't one (nothing gained nothing lost)

4) I do believe in a God and there is one (eternal life gained nothing lost)

you can't really lose...if you choose to believe and there isn't a God and you just die and that's all then who cares, you won't cuz you're dead and you'll never live again. But if there is a God and you die and have to face him, then you're screwed

alright that's enough typing since these posts in this thread are way too long

So if Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, ect. don't believe in Jesus they are condemned to eternal damnation? Is that correct?

Let's see what happens now...

Cheers! Amused Rabbit

allow me to answer you rabbit

16"For God so loved the world,[a] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." John 3:16-18

people who don't believe in Jesus are condemned to judgement but people who believe will be saved

and i don't think you would call yourself a hindu, buddhist or taoist if you believed in Jesus ;)

The other side of the coin..

For people that say God does exist, prove it. I'm not convinced that gravity can be proved!

Belief in a God requires faith - blind faith at that.

To each his/her own.

Whatever butters your toast....

Personally, I don't buy into blind faith. My humble unprovable opinion...

Cheers!

i think we should close the thread at that ^^^

what's all this about religion haha, i thought this was about whether or not you believed in God

and besides, you can never prove or disprove that there is a God, if you could, you won't have to believe...he'd either be real and who he says he is or not exist at all

so how much are these going for?

did the PM inbox size shrink?

cuz mine is now down to a limit of 100 msgs

And the bullets for it and how to make them go where he wants them to.

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you americans and your guns haha

glad to see it back up too....i was checking all day yesterday

I stand informed, once again by the kevinator

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haha didn't you know?

you can be whatever you want

you are a mad man....

but 33 hrs ain't bad

you just need enough threads

woot!

i got 2000 posts before the meet

haha nice one

cuz he needs a break

he posted like 100 posts within a day :blink:

i can't wait to get mine now!! :)

haha yea...lets hope that doesn't happen

you know what would suck the most at a NW meet though....

an accident with two volvos

i wonder what will happen this time....more ricers might stop by haha

yea...

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