Captain Bondo Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Ah I see what's happening. Of course it's lean with 468's an 5 bar. At 20psi you (should) have 6.5 bar in the rail. What do you run for a pump? A walbro? If so, that stuff ain't happening bro. Walbros suck past 75psi or so. It's leaning out under load because fuel pressure is taking a dump. 468's at 5 bar is the same as the 50's at 4 bar. So if it's better up top you know it's a pressure issue. I'd be shocked if it wasn't, walbro's hate those kind of pressures. Those injectors are right about the same speed or slightly slower than saturated Bosch injectors so that's likely not the issue. Dynamic injector mismatch wouldn't typically make things linearly rich/lean either. Are you datalogging AFR's currently? Sorry I think maybe you were asked that already. Anyways if you aren't you should. The gauge's response to misfires and whatnot is unpredictable. A high speed datalog will give a bit better picture. You guys better start making some serious numbers when TT comes out. No more excuses. J/K I don't have any spec on the Bosch injectors, I'll have to ask Five-O. The Siemens specs are listed on my seller's listing: Gain: 0.11ms/mg Offset: 0.055ms Turn on time @ 14VDC: 1.14ms Turn off time: 0.85ms @ 600KPa Factory Tolerance: +/-6 % Spray Pattern: Cone (4-Hole) The car was running rich across the board with the 625's - too lean with the 468's, even @ 5bar. I hoping that the 50lbs @ 4bar (605cc) will fit the bill, until I get the tune recalibrated for the actual flow rates of the siemens. And yes, I'll be very happy once I get TT and can make adjustments dynamically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Ah I see what's happening. Of course it's lean with 468's an 5 bar. At 20psi you (should) have 6.5 bar in the rail. What do you run for a pump? A walbro? If so, that stuff ain't happening bro. Walbros suck past 75psi or so. It's leaning out under load because fuel pressure is taking a dump. 468's at 5 bar is the same as the 50's at 4 bar. So if it's better up top you know it's a pressure issue. I'd be shocked if it wasn't, walbro's hate those kind of pressures. Those injectors are right about the same speed or slightly slower than saturated Bosch injectors so that's likely not the issue. Dynamic injector mismatch wouldn't typically make things linearly rich/lean either. Are you datalogging AFR's currently? Sorry I think maybe you were asked that already. Anyways if you aren't you should. The gauge's response to misfires and whatnot is unpredictable. A high speed datalog will give a bit better picture. You guys better start making some serious numbers when TT comes out. No more excuses. J/K I know I just put the 468's back in so I could at least drive the car, and to confirm it was a tune calibration issue with the 625's. I'm not datalogging - I need to get the RS232 connector, and now that I have a PC laptop (for TT), I assume I can readily find datalogging software. I looked on AEM's website & didn't find any info on datalogging. Any insight you can provide on setting up to datalog AFR's would be greatly appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 50lb Red's came today; Five-O provides flow data with the set should have time to install them tomorrow.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maciekb2002 Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 go for them !!!! This time you should win. What brand are those ? probably bosch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Ordered Innovate IN-3790 & SSI-4 so I can start datalogging my shit. Getting tired of the seat of the pants testing & trying to note what AFR's are at... this does mean I'll need to start using a fkn PC, I guess. My mac laptop doesn't run Windows, it not intel processor. I'll need to do this for TT anyway, so I guess I'll just have to get used to the darkside ..put the 50lb reds in today, @ 4bar base (605cc) - 3.2bar under vacuum 5.2bar under current boost level of 22psi. AFR's settled to 14.7 @ idle no problem, but in a 3rd gear pull, AFR's climbed to 14 by the end of 3rd gear. So, it's too lean @ 605cc, and I'm still not up to 24psi I'll try tweaking the base pressure to get the 625cc range back. This all suggests that the 625cc Siemens just don't like ME4.4 - I guess. The vendor said they all flow tested "fine" but won't provide flow data unless I pay $10 per injector. Guess I won't be buying from EFI Components again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dongle Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I'll need to start using a fkn PC, I guess. My mac laptop doesn't run Windows, it not intel processor. I'll need to do this for TT anyway, so I guess I'll just have to get used to the darkside Dell mini 9/10. Then you can has both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnderr Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Dell mini 9/10. Then you can has both! Macbook and Paralells/vmware/virtualbox to run windows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dongle Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Macbook and Paralells/vmware/virtualbox to run windows. Spending 4x as much is a great alternative. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a windows user. But Jesus Christ common sense. I guess if he were looking to replace his current computer tha would be the way to go, I was just offering a cheap solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I'm not looking to replace my Mac. I usually use my desktop G5 at home, and have a 4 yr old iBook that I use elsewhere. I also have a 3-4 year old Toshiba laptop on permanent loan that I haven't looked at yet (because I intensely dislike looking at windows)- I'm assuming I can use that for datalogging & TT. Anyhow, got Adam to ride with me so I could get a short video with the 50lb'ers set to 4.2bar base (approx 625cc) now I'm in the ballpark the Woth tune is intended for. Don't know why the Siemens 625cc run so shitty in my setup, but they do. Anyway here it is.. Youtube video from today AFR's are much better! I also put the Volvo plugs back in gapped @ .029", as this morning I had missfiring over 20psi with the NGK race plugs (gapped @ .032" (probably could have tried regapping the NGK's, but I didn't feel like it). The problem now is keeping the car on the road I plan on putting the BG back in, now that my oil pan mod is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyIron Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Holy Sh** Hussein Your breaking traction in an AWD! That wagon is amazing! Time to get back on the dyno and see where you are at... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Holy Sh** Hussein Your breaking traction in an AWD! That wagon is amazing! Time to get back on the dyno and see where you are at... In the interest of full disclosure - I'm not AWD right now (see last sentence of previous post ) - but, it does break free even with the AWD, just not this extreme, and no appreciable torque steer Don't think I'm gonna dyno until I get my Innovate stuff & do a little datalogging/analysis. I want to make sure it's really right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychoWagon Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 If I had the time and didn't need my car as a DD I would have loved to do your setup with the 20g. But because of time I had to throw on a "19T". Nevermind f'ing with the downpipe, all the drain tubes and feed lines would drive me absolutely insane for a weekend project. Not to mention I'm not the best welder. I gotta get this 98 s70 N/A up and running (got for $200) So I can have a second commuter to do my turboooooooo upgrade If those red injectors are doing you well let us know as I'm very curious about them, and let me know how your walbro holds up :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerBob Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Just watched the video. Very nice stuff there. I am officially pumped for a 6-speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Will Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Hussein that video was awesome. Looks like things are about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 If I had the time and didn't need my car as a DD I would have loved to do your setup with the 20g. But because of time I had to throw on a "19T". Nevermind f'ing with the downpipe, all the drain tubes and feed lines would drive me absolutely insane for a weekend project. Not to mention I'm not the best welder. I gotta get this 98 s70 N/A up and running (got for $200) So I can have a second commuter to do my turboooooooo upgrade If those red injectors are doing you well let us know as I'm very curious about them, and let me know how your walbro holds up The injectors are modified by Five-0 to run @ 50lbs, and they're working great! The FP is the stock AWD pump - which is higher volume than the FWD models. I don't intend on replacing it anytime soon. Once the tune is revised so I can drop my base pressure back under 3.8bar, this pump should be fine. It was OK with the greens @ 5bar, just couldn't go over 17psi boost because it would lean out, but that's more likely due to the discrepancy between the tune & maxxing out the greens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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