lookforjoe Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Remember that any venting off the crankcase ventilation system that does not return to the intake tract will effectively be a vacuum leak. Just something to keep in mind I put a check valve in the vented line (the line previously entering the CC), so that it only vents under positive pressure; there is still the vacuum line attached to draw the vapors back @ idle. Anyway, just venting the breather line isn't enough. @ 1.6bar, I still got oil out the filler cap. I did a logged run @ 1.6bar .... didn't realize the rev limit was over 7600rpm... started recording rolling in 2nd gear... so, even at full load, my AFR's don't go over low 12's :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
550 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Joe, I had that same problem!! I was getting it with the other engine, I figured after time that it was the rings. In my case I think it was, because now new engine, no smoke. (Same turbo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Joe, I had that same problem!! I was getting it with the other engine, I figured after time that it was the rings. In my case I think it was, because now new engine, no smoke. (Same turbo) Glad you got yours sorted out. I'll be rebuilding the turbo on mine. If it was the engine, it would smoke anytime I decelerated from high rpm, regardless of boost. Found out the AFR scaling in Logworks was off - I corrected the scaling today - the previous charts were off by 2v AFR's are shitty over 7K - this is @ 1.55Bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
550 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Mine only ever smoked under boost which was the weird part. Never from high RPM decel. :-/ Engine fail. (John Ross FTL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave 54 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Glad you got yours sorted out. I'll be rebuilding the turbo on mine. If it was the engine, it would smoke anytime I decelerated from high rpm, regardless of boost. Found out the AFR scaling in Logworks was off - I corrected the scaling today - the previous charts were off by 2v AFR's are shitty over 7K - this is @ 1.55Bar. Pretty sure you've done this if you replaced your fuel pump. Quoted from RRE "In 1996 we did some research into Denso's (formerly Nippon-Denso) in-tank fuel pump flow rates. The biggest surprise was how much voltage affects flow. Also how much flow drops off at higher pressures. If you measure the available voltage at the battery with the engine running you should see 13.5-14 volts or so. If you then measure the voltage at the fuel pump it's self with the engine running, it will be around 11.9 v and with the fuel pressure regulator loaded with boost pressure the voltage drops to 11.8 v. This is from the small gauge factory wiring being unable to handle the current. The fix for this is to run a large (10 ga. or more) wire directly from the battery to the fuel pump." Had to do this on my DSM when I upgraded fuel pumps, once i'd hit about 4500rpm's afr's were in the shitter. Once I did this upgrade I had no more issue's, ran 23psi til redline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Pretty sure you've done this if you replaced your fuel pump. Quoted from RRE "In 1996 we did some research into Denso's (formerly Nippon-Denso) in-tank fuel pump flow rates. The biggest surprise was how much voltage affects flow. Also how much flow drops off at higher pressures. If you measure the available voltage at the battery with the engine running you should see 13.5-14 volts or so. If you then measure the voltage at the fuel pump it's self with the engine running, it will be around 11.9 v and with the fuel pressure regulator loaded with boost pressure the voltage drops to 11.8 v. This is from the small gauge factory wiring being unable to handle the current. The fix for this is to run a large (10 ga. or more) wire directly from the battery to the fuel pump." Had to do this on my DSM when I upgraded fuel pumps, once i'd hit about 4500rpm's afr's were in the shitter. Once I did this upgrade I had no more issue's, ran 23psi til redline. I think this is a very good area to look into. The stock pumps can support decent power levels, but almost every one of mine has had some sort of issue (in 850s that is). It's an area that isn't always looked into as much as it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave 54 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I think this is a very good area to look into. The stock pumps can support decent power levels, but almost every one of mine has had some sort of issue (in 850s that is). It's an area that isn't always looked into as much as it should be. It was something driving me bonkers, 20psi and up and anything north of 4500rpm's afr's were just crap. Came across this in one of the forums think it was DSMtalk.com. But here's a link to RRE's page on this topic, My link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Makes sense. I'll check the voltage @ the pump. AWD's already have a higher volume pump than stock models, and I've run this pump @ 5bar BASE pressure without flow issues. I'm pretty sure in my case I can tweak the fuel pressure (I'm back @ 3bar base) to deliver a little more flow. The tune is currently designed for 517cc, and around 1.5bar boost, so I'm on the edge of that. J already told me to try running up to 3.5bar base to see if the tune responds. I needed a baseline, and this is it. My two major concerns right now are the turbo itself (oil smoke on decel after heavy boost) and crankcase ventilation issues over 1.6bar boost. Oh, and the fact that Innovate's SSI-4 doesn't like the Volvo ABS pulsed speed signal - it won't display speed in Logworks. :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I would be tempted to do a couple quick dyno pulls. This would serve 2 very useful purposes: 1) You could compare the dyno's AFR log to you own, and verify that your setup is reporting things as you expect 2) Power output will confirm/deny if the fuel system is having issues. If you run 3.5 bar of base pressure with ~500cc injectors and max them out - assuming you aren't losing fuel pressure you should make ~400 crank so 300-340whp. Makes sense. I'll check the voltage @ the pump. AWD's already have a higher volume pump than stock models, and I've run this pump @ 5bar BASE pressure without flow issues. I'm pretty sure in my case I can tweak the fuel pressure (I'm back @ 3bar base) to deliver a little more flow. The tune is currently designed for 517cc, and around 1.5bar boost, so I'm on the edge of that. J already told me to try running up to 3.5bar base to see if the tune responds. I needed a baseline, and this is it. My two major concerns right now are the turbo itself (oil smoke on decel after heavy boost) and crankcase ventilation issues over 1.6bar boost. Oh, and the fact that Innovate's SSI-4 doesn't like the Volvo ABS pulsed speed signal - it won't display speed in Logworks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave 54 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Makes sense. I'll check the voltage @ the pump. AWD's already have a higher volume pump than stock models, and I've run this pump @ 5bar BASE pressure without flow issues. I'm pretty sure in my case I can tweak the fuel pressure (I'm back @ 3bar base) to deliver a little more flow. The tune is currently designed for 517cc, and around 1.5bar boost, so I'm on the edge of that. J already told me to try running up to 3.5bar base to see if the tune responds. I needed a baseline, and this is it. My two major concerns right now are the turbo itself (oil smoke on decel after heavy boost) and crankcase ventilation issues over 1.6bar boost. Oh, and the fact that Innovate's SSI-4 doesn't like the Volvo ABS pulsed speed signal - it won't display speed in Logworks. Yes it may have a higher volume pump but if the the volts are dropping so will your lph's, check the pump for volts i'm interested to see if this may help out at all. AS you can see the lph's rose anywhere from 30-60 on different pumps, even just raising the FP the drop was even more significant. With this modification you should see 13.8-13.9 volts at the pump with a good charging system. This allows the pump to pull an additional 5 amps at idle. The electrical system is designed to operate at this (14 v) voltage. Denso fuel pumps are designed with this voltage in mind. As you look these specs over you can see how it is worthless to compare fuel pump flow with out specifying both voltage and pressure. Lph = liters per hour. All Denso 50mm (1G) and 38mm (2G and GVR4) Dia. in-tank fuel pumps start out with the part number 195130-xxxx T/E/L turbo stock pump, GVR4 and 323GTX too: $20 used good (1G and 2G both even though they are different sizes) part #s: -0510, -0153, -0670, -0440, -2020, -0022, -2760 : 100 lph @43psi @12v 70 lph @58psi @12v 140 lph @43psi @14v 110 lph @58psi @14v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackT5 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I think fuel line diameter comes into play before voltage at the pump on these cars. If you are concerned about flow, throw in a Walbro. Test the voltage since it's quick and easy to do, but I don't think thats the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave 54 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I think fuel line diameter comes into play before voltage at the pump on these cars. If you are concerned about flow, throw in a Walbro. Test the voltage since it's quick and easy to do, but I don't think thats the issue. I was running stock lines with an upgraded pump and had very similar issue's he's having, after a certain rpm the volts drop causing the pump not deliver what it's suppose to,the stock power wire to the pump can only support so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 highway data logs 3-4 4-5 5-6 unfortunately I wasn't paying attention to the presence of the staties... as a guide 2800 in 6th is 80mph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzimark Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I find those graphs very difficult to interpret and digest Does that mean you were doing 150-160mph? :blink: On the plus side, you're not gonna have issues with pinging from not running rich enough. Did the check valve help the PCV pressure?And where is your front plate? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I find those graphs very difficult to interpret and digest Does that mean you were doing 150-160mph? :blink: On the plus side, you're not gonna have issues with pinging from not running rich enough. Did the check valve help the PCV pressure? And where is your front plate? probably 130 check valve didn't change oil smoke, has to help to some degree. I'm going to vent the cam cover next. got a ticket for no front plate, excessive tint & lane change elapsed time RPM AFR Timing Load Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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