Hussein's 1998 V70 Xr : The Force Awakens

[mdlimy]

Thanks Hussein. That actually somewhat looks pretty similar to what we're running, I think. One of the main differences are we aren't running quite as much main fuel in the 4800 and above bins and I have the low load bins a bit leaner. The other difference is I'm not using very much enrichment on the WOT side, only -2 and -3 for most of the different RPM points with a bit more(-4 or -5) at the top rpm scale. Cool. I also never let anything in one of the load ranges lean out like you have in the 28-50% load bins above 4200 rpm. We haven't done much midrange tuning, but I did try to keep things smooth across the board for the areas that didn't need much enrichment. One of the main things we've been fighting is boost spiking and causing cut/blow-out of sorts. I've tapered the onset of boost like I see being discussed here so that it's not "allowed" to hit peak boost until somewhere above 4200/4800 or so. Can't remember exactly, but things seem to be coming together.

I do wonder if his cam timing's off though, just because I don't think he really had a good way to set it.

What are the differences between your guys' setups? Just the turbo? Are the pistons/rods/compression ratio/cams the same?

ditch the factory boost control for an electronic boost controler if you havent already, if you already have one then you might need to focus a bit more on the PID tuning of the boost before messing anymore with the maps...

[klr142]

ditch the factory boost control for an electronic boost controler if you havent already, if you already have one then you might need to focus a bit more on the PID tuning of the boost before messing anymore with the maps...

We haven't yet, but will be doing so in the future. We have to make do with this for the dyno on Saturday, it's doing the job but with higher boost levels it's just going to be even worse. Hopefully we can still squeak out a little bit of power on this early tune with the engine still breaking in and the lower boost levels. Hopefully.

[mdlimy]

We haven't yet, but will be doing so in the future. We have to make do with this for the dyno on Saturday, it's doing the job but with higher boost levels it's just going to be even worse. Hopefully we can still squeak out a little bit of power on this early tune with the engine still breaking in and the lower boost levels. Hopefully.

EBC's are a must for tuning and higher boost apps like what you are working with, i know Hussein will agree, get my car on the dyno and tune it :P

[klr142]

EBC's are a must for tuning and higher boost apps like what you are working with, i know Hussein will agree, get my car on the dyno and tune it

Yeah yeah... I think one week to learn how to use TT is enough for me to learn on the first car I've ever tuned... Give it time! I'll gladly help you tune your car on the street before strapping it down, but would I actually be of any help?

Sorry for the OT, Hussein...

[mdlimy]

Yeah yeah... I think one week to learn how to use TT is enough for me to learn on the first car I've ever tuned... Give it time! I'll gladly help you tune your car on the street before strapping it down, but would I actually be of any help?

Sorry for the OT, Hussein...

Not sure if you would be much help street tuning but i am definetly still learning, your definetly welcome to tag along, experience is experience, it all helps, and tuning is probally one of the must fun things i have ever learned to do! gonna steal lucky one of these days and make him ride along

Back on topic. :lol:

[Captain Bondo]

EBC's are a must for tuning and higher boost apps like what you are working with

Absolutely not. There's nothing wrong with a good manual boost controller and in fact for initial setup on the dyno it's actually nice to take one electronic device out of the equation and keep things simple.

[mdlimy]

Absolutely not. There's nothing wrong with a good manual boost controller and in fact for initial setup on the dyno it's actually nice to take one electronic device out of the equation and keep things simple.

i definitely have to respectively disagree, i have yet to find a manual boost controller that is anywhere near as stable as a properly tuned closed loop PID boost controller.

[EricF]

i definitely have to respectively disagree, i have yet to find a manual boost controller that is anywhere near as stable as a properly tuned closed loop PID boost controller.

Then I think you may have actuator preload issues, or something else. I have seen ignition timing heavily influence boost characteristics before.

I have an AVC-R in my car, unplugged, with a manual boost controller in the engine bay doing all the real work. If you want it I'll give you a good price on it (that goes for anyone, actually... sorry for the shameless plug)

[klr142]

I have seen ignition timing heavily influence boost characteristics before

For those of us who are tuning, can you expand on what these influences are please? ;)

[EricF]

For those of us who are tuning, can you expand on what these influences are please?

Basically just very retarded timing creating higher boost and very advanced timing creating lower levels of boost... I've suspected it's related to the TD04HL boost fade a lot of us have struggled with, but I'm really not sure. I know though that my blue car right now with 24 degrees initial/idle advance on a mechanical B21FT distributor with an angle outlet 19T and the wastegate port wired shut will only do about 24-25 psi and fade to around 20...

In my old GT, I also had boost set at 15 psi or so, and the distributor bolt wasn't tightened down on one test drive, the distributor turned a little retarded and I saw 18-20 psi (the car also felt slower, and the manifold glowed a good deal when I pulled over to inspect my mishap)...

These are caveman-level observations, and really I don't think with fully programmable timing that's approximately right it would ever observably affect boost levels. However, when something is way off I think weird boost characteristics point to ignition timing if wastegate size/preload/spring# are all within acceptable parameters.

Remember too that anti-lag works with a stepped timing retard to move part of the combustion event closer to the turbine...

This is a topic that someone with more understanding could give more insight to. I just have caveman-ish observations to pass along ;)

[bum2kev]

I would like to know what TT is doing exactly on the new version to help with spikes. he said in his update we will have better control over the TCV.

[lookforjoe]

Thanks Hussein. That actually somewhat looks pretty similar to what we're running, I think. One of the main differences are we aren't running quite as much main fuel in the 4800 and above bins and I have the low load bins a bit leaner. The other difference is I'm not using very much enrichment on the WOT side, only -2 and -3 for most of the different RPM points with a bit more(-4 or -5) at the top rpm scale. Cool. I also never let anything in one of the load ranges lean out like you have in the 28-50% load bins above 4200 rpm. We haven't done much midrange tuning, but I did try to keep things smooth across the board for the areas that didn't need much enrichment. One of the main things we've been fighting is boost spiking and causing cut/blow-out of sorts. I've tapered the onset of boost like I see being discussed here so that it's not "allowed" to hit peak boost until somewhere above 4200/4800 or so. Can't remember exactly, but things seem to be coming together.

I do wonder if his cam timing's off though, just because I don't think he really had a good way to set it.

What are the differences between your guys' setups? Just the turbo? Are the pistons/rods/compression ratio/cams the same?

I have NA cam's, OS1 pistons. Basically stock internal T5 motor with h-beams.

I don't know what the difference in flow characteristics between our turbos are/is.

I know that every time I change the boost levels, even if it's only 2-3psi, I have to rework the map.

As far as cams go, as long as the cams are centered in the slots, and the timing marks aligned, you'll be at the stock 4-5º exh, 0º int.

Sent Nick the file.

Turn it down to 14psi and start over and tune the car properly and understand what the tune is doing. You've been going around in circles for months.

it seriously take about an hour to tune a car on a "normal" ems on the dyno. Turn the boost dway down and get it back to just working like a normal car.

I disabled the Apexi, so it's running actuator base, which is 15-16psi.

I'm making a map to work with that low of a boost setting, so I'll see how it goes.

Still a PITA, since I'm doing this alone. Driving, finding a clear section of roadway & monitoring the map trace ain't happening. So, I still have to judge what areas to move around based on the logs.

[klr142]

Basically just very retarded boost creating higher boost and very advanced timing creating lower levels of boost... I've suspected it's related to the TD04HL boost fade a lot of us have struggled with, but I'm really not sure. I know though that my blue car right now with 24 degrees initial/idle advance on a mechanical B21FT distributor with an angle outlet 19T and the wastegate port wired shut will only do about 24-25 psi and fade to around 20...

In my old GT, I also had boost set at 15 psi or so, and the distributor bolt wasn't tightened down on one test drive, the distributor turned a little retarded and I saw 18-20 psi (the car also felt slower, and the manifold glowed a good deal when I pulled over to inspect my mishap)...

These are caveman-level observations, and really I don't think with fully programmable timing that's approximately right it would ever observably affect boost levels. However, when something is way off I think weird boost characteristics point to ignition timing if wastegate size/preload/spring# are all within acceptable parameters.

Remember too that anti-lag works with a stepped timing retard to move part of the combustion event closer to the turbine...

This is a topic that someone with more understanding could give more insight to. I just have caveman-ish observations to pass along

They're good observations none the less, thanks! Maybe because we're running less boost I shouldn't be too scared of bumping up our timing in high load areas, and see if it can also maybe help possible boost spiking in the midrange. Only a couple degrees, not much. And, in your first sentence I think you meant to say "retarded timing creating higher boost".

I would like to know what TT is doing exactly on the new version to help with spikes. he said in his update we will have better control over the TCV.

Agreed!

I have NA cam's, OS1 pistons. Basically stock internal T5 motor with h-beams.

I don't know what the difference in flow characteristics between our turbos are/is.

I know that every time I change the boost levels, even if it's only 2-3psi, I have to rework the map.

As far as cams go, as long as the cams are centered in the slots, and the timing marks aligned, you'll be at the stock 4-5º exh, 0º int.

Sent Nick the file.

I disabled the Apexi, so it's running actuator base, which is 15-16psi.

I'm making a map to work with that low of a boost setting, so I'll see how it goes.

Still a PITA, since I'm doing this alone. Driving, finding a clear section of roadway & monitoring the map trace ain't happening. So, I still have to judge what areas to move around based on the logs.

Thanks!

Ask Nick to send you his file, as we're basically running 15psi. It was going slightly leaner than I wanted at 6000+rpm(near 13) if I remember correctly, so that was something I was going to change today when I see him.

[lookforjoe]

I will be so happy when the revised TT comes out. Trying to figure out at exactly what throttle position the system switches to WOT settings is an exercise in futility - not necessarily a TT issue - The Volvo training manual for ME4.4 states that WOT settings apply as of 4.2v, but that they may take effect if conditions call for it. So, that makes for quite a gray area. Much of my adjustments need to take place in that high load/part to mid throttle area, and it's just not easy to figure out. Again, Map Trace Record should make all this much easier to correlate with my logs.

I should just leave it alone until then, but I'm just not that patient :lol:

[klr142]

I should just leave it alone until then, but I'm just not that patient

Same with us!!!