Hussein's 1998 V70 Xr : The Force Awakens

[EricF]

They're good observations none the less, thanks! Maybe because we're running less boost I shouldn't be too scared of bumping up our timing in high load areas, and see if it can also maybe help possible boost spiking in the midrange. Only a couple degrees, not much. And, in your first sentence I think you meant to say "retarded timing creating higher boost".Agreed!

Yup you're right, I'll fix that... I would be cautious with trying to use timing to do anything boost-related around the torque peak, just because that's where detonation can do the most damage IMO. I would just mess with preload and actuator spring pressure. Very low to no preload with a medium pressure spring (like a 300/70 actuator or stock T3 ford/volvo actuator-- depending on how much arm travel you need for the 20G.. maybe 30-50% of target boost level).

[klr142]

That's true, that's why I was hesitant, but there's still room for 1-2 degrees in a few spots(I retarded a little bit trying to reduce the problem), and Hussein was/is running the same advance(iirc) and more boost. Nick's turbo is a T3/T4 with a Super 60, or something. I'm not really up to date on turbo speak aside from the Mitsu stuff.

[lookforjoe]

Yup you're right, I'll fix that... I would be cautious with trying to use timing to do anything boost-related around the torque peak, just because that's where detonation can do the most damage IMO. I would just mess with preload and actuator spring pressure. Very low to no preload with a medium pressure spring (like a 300/70 actuator or stock T3 ford/volvo actuator-- depending on how much arm travel you need for the 20G.. maybe 30-50% of target boost level).

My actuator is 15psi, with no preload. I turned off the Apexi, so I can try & get a baseline 15-16psi tune sorted out. Every map I have is waay to rich for such low settings, so I have to rework the entire fuel map over 62% load.

[EricF]

That's true, that's why I was hesitant, but there's still room for 1-2 degrees in a few spots(I retarded a little bit trying to reduce the problem), and Hussein was/is running the same advance(iirc) and more boost. Nick's turbo is a T3/T4 with a Super 60, or something. I'm not really up to date on turbo speak aside from the Mitsu stuff.

Here's a largely irrelevant look at one of the more current renditions of my timing map...

This is fixed timing, since I am not running any knock retard. I'm running about 2.1-2.2 kpa (1.1-1.2 bar of boost), spooling linearly starting at 3500ish with full boost a little after 4000.

[klr142]

My actuator is 15psi, with no preload. I turned off the Apexi, so I can try & get a baseline 15-16psi tune sorted out. Every map I have is waay to rich for such low settings, so I have to rework the entire fuel map over 62% load.

You should only need to adjust the bins in the higher load areas of the 3600 or 4200-7200 rpm. Nick should be sending you his tune soon, it's not fully worked out, by any means, but it's reasonable for sure. Basically lower the bins that are above 82 or so by maybe 2%, and the bins that are higher than 90 by maybe 5-10% depending on how high they go. Give it a whirl, anyway.

Here's a largely irrelevant look at one of the more current renditions of my timing map...

[...]

This is fixed timing, since I am not running any knock retard. I'm running about 2.1-2.2 kpa (1.1-1.2 bar of boost), spooling linearly starting at 3500ish with full boost a little after 4000.

That's like NO timing in at high load... Does it feel fast/make any power?

[JCviggen]

That's like NO timing in at high load... Does it feel fast/make any power?

17 degrees at 6000rpm is good timing. He's not hitting the 256kpa load cells obviously.

[EricF]

You should only need to adjust the bins in the higher load areas of the 3600 or 4200-7200 rpm. Nick should be sending you his tune soon, it's not fully worked out, by any means, but it's reasonable for sure. Basically lower the bins that are above 82 or so by maybe 2%, and the bins that are higher than 90 by maybe 5-10% depending on how high they go. Give it a whirl, anyway.

That's like NO timing in at high load... Does it feel fast/make any power?

You're probably looking at the top row, which is 2.5 kpa and a lot higher than my setup is intended to go... Unlike with Motronic, I don't just tune the top line assuming that's where I'll be at since the MAF is maxed out If you follow the 216 kpa line above 4000, that's more or less the timing I see at WOT. Which is pretty good, and a bit more timing than Hussein seems to see during his WOT datalogging (he's only recently been able to get his timing consistently above 10 degrees, before that he was seeing 0-5 BTDC advance...). Since it's not been dyno tuned I've tried to be conservative on timing. Do I think I can add 2-4 degrees in a couple bins and pick up some power? Probably But I'm being cautious.

As far as fast, it trapped 105 as it is now, with shitty passes. Picking up I think 26-27 mph in the last 1/8 mile (more than my 19T setup ever did, trapping 107+ mph). For a stock longblock and cams, and 17-18 psi boost, it's rather respectable. Once it's been to the dyno and actually tuned, it should pick up a bit as it's rich now along with being timed conservatively. I don't want to add much more timing than it has now though without some sort of knock feedback.

That's why I prefaced my map with its 'irrelevance' -- not only is the map expressed by KPA instead of Motronic's 'load' but the actual values observed in the two systems are rather different when compared to the values entered in the maps.

[Captain Bondo]

*cue broken record*

Installing a larger maf housing will eliminate the need to re-tune every time you change the boost.

You would be saving yourself a lot of work in the long run if you would just put the MAF in a 3 pipe and re-scale everything.

My MBC holds boost +/- 1 psi all the way to 7500rpm, from 4psi to 18psi. If you are using some wellfare ebay bleed valve etc then you're doing it wrong.My bet is that is the case.

I wouldn't go too mujch further than Eric's tune without a dyno, that said I have about 3-5 more degrees than that at every point.

And as far as knock feedback goes, you can make a set of det cans for about 8 bucks...

[klr142]

Cool, and yeah, I was actually looking at the higher pressures that you're not actually running... You are running about the same boost levels that Nick is running(is your engine built too? I think I remember that being a yes...), so I will see how things compare. I think we're using slightly less midrange(1-2 degrees) and a few more on the very top couple of cells at high rpm.

[NChoy]

Hussein: You should have our tune shortly.

[EricF]

(is your engine built too? I think I remember that being a yes...)

Stock 170k-ish 850 turbo longblock, including turbo cams... Stock intercooler as well... The two only really glaring shortcomings of what I'm driving around in (other than it hasn't really been tuned) :lol:

[klr142]

Hussein, we just realized something... Nick never set his fuel pressure so we're running whatever pressure the adjustable rate regulator was set at to begin with. Do you know if that's 3.5bar or does it vary?

[lookforjoe]

Hussein, we just realized something... Nick never set his fuel pressure so we're running whatever pressure the adjustable rate regulator was set at to begin with. Do you know if that's 3.5bar or does it vary?

Oh oh.

No idea, I'm afraid.. But, I doubt it's where you want it to be. Since it's 3-5bar, it really could be anywhere inbetween.

Been trying to get a base 15psi map sorted out. Still too lean in parts here, but basically there once I fix the lean area

[klr142]

Well, I have no idea how good our map that we sent you earlier is. We just got done doing an hour and a half or so of tinkering, and it's looking closer to your map, hahaha.

The thing that's annoying is we're intermittently having boost spiking issues that cause spark blow-out(or something along those lines/cutting out), AND, even when the boost is constant around 14-15psi it sometimes does the cutting out(very lightly), even though it doesn't other times.

Bottom line, hopefully the boost control thing works better in the next revision, OR we need to get an MBC/EBC.

[lookforjoe]

Well, I have no idea how good our map that we sent you earlier is. We just got done doing an hour and a half or so of tinkering, and it's looking closer to your map, hahaha.

The thing that's annoying is we're intermittently having boost spiking issues that cause spark blow-out(or something along those lines/cutting out), AND, even when the boost is constant around 14-15psi it sometimes does the cutting out(very lightly), even though it doesn't other times.

Bottom line, hopefully the boost control thing works better in the next revision, OR we need to get an MBC/EBC.

I've been dealing with blowout also. Another reason I decided to try & get a base 15psi tune sorted out. I just swapped out my plugs yesterday. I'm running R-5672a-8's gapped @ .036" with the MSD6a. Cap & Rotor only last about 6 months now, just changed them a few weeks ago due to misfire.

No boost spikes to speak of with the Apexi activated. Right now, I'm running off the mechanical WG actuator. You can see how flat it is in the log above.